Re: Toishanese surnames

["C. Louie" <qingjing@sj.bigger.net>]

Hwong wrote:
> 
> Charles:
> 
> I beg to differ on your surname listing of the Wong surname in
> Toishanese (listed as Vong on your posting). Of all the scores of Wong
> households in Montreal of Toishanese origin, I do not know of a single
> one using Vong. Are you sure you got that listing right?
> 
> H. Wong
> 
> ref/Surnames     Cantonese               Taishanese		  Hakka
>                  Wong                    Vong                   Vong
>                  Chow                    Ju                     Zu
>                  Lam                     Lim                    Lim
>                  Choy                    Toy                    Cai
>                  Wu                      Vu                     Fu
>                  Lee/Li                  Lee/Li                 Li
>                  Lui                     Lui                    Lui
>                  Ng                      Ng                     Ng
>                  Lau                     Liu                    Liu
>                  Lung                    Liong                  Liung
>                  Chan                    Chin                   Cin
>                  Yu                      Yi                     Yi

Dear H. Wong,

"Vong" (with a "feather-light" v-sound as if the sound is being
compromised between a "v" and "f" sounds but not the hard sounding "v"
as in victory) is how the Toisanese pronounces "Wong" when they engage
in a discussion in Toisan-wa (Hoisan-va). There is a pattern in the
Toisan dialect where the Cantonese "w" and the Toisanese "v" are cognate
variations of one another, i.e. "wa" becomes "va", "wing" becomes
"ving", "wei" becomes "vei" etc. I do believe that it is not uncommon to
change the "v" to "w" once the native Toisanese has interacted with
"Cantonese" populations in major cities. 

In addition, many Toisanese have lived in Hong Kong and has adopted
Cantonese pronunciations before immigrating to North America while
people issuing permits to travel abroad would most likely identify the
traveler's surname through their Chinese surname character to issue
travel documents and "anglicize" the Toisan pronunciation of "Vong" from
the Cantonese "Wong". A person such as a Toisanese who isn't familiar
with the English language isn't going to go through the trouble of
contesting "v" for "w". You will also notice that many recent elderly
immigrants from Southern China have their surnames printed in Mandarin
pinyin on their documents but when addressed in English as Mr. Xu, Lin,
Huang etc., they would give you a blank stare.

Not a single household of Toisan origin in San Francisco and perhaps all
of the US spell "Wong" as "Vong" unless perhaps they are Chinese from
Vietnam. But if you asked a native Toisanese by the name of "Mr. Wong"
in Toisanese: "Nei giu-schling mi-ya mehng a?" Mr. Wong may reply in
Toisanese: "Ngoi siu-schling Vong ge". But if the inquirer is asking the
question in Cantonese, you're most likely to recieve the response in
Cantonese from a Toisan native: "Ngoh siu-sing Wong ge." The logic
behind this is that many Toisanese are embarassed to have to explain
their "country-side" origins by not letting the "v"-sound give them away
or find it too troublesome to explain such private information. I also
think that the Hong Kong Media is making the "v" initial less popular
among Toisanese audiences as the Hong Kong Media is responsible for
making the "ng-" and "n-" sound initials less and less popular in
Cantonese.

Sincerely,
Charles Louie