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Re: fwd: Re: hakka: Hakka Chinese FAQ

To: fhakka@asiawind.com, hakka@brooklaw.edu, hakka98@hotmail.com, Seow=Yoke=Kong%MLEO%ML@singtel.com
Subject: Re: fwd: Re: hakka: Hakka Chinese FAQ
From: "John Guo" <hakka98@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:36:33 PST
Cc: franchin@panix.com, teoh@cs.utk.edu
Who cares if you are from galaxy community or a,b,c,d ... 
countries? Hakkas are Chinese, that is it. Even if you go to
Mars. But if you marry a Marsian, your children are only
half Hakka. This is called biology. Understand?


o,
>
>I hope you will honor the forum's objective to discuss on Hakka 
customs, 
>traditions, etc., and leave politics elsewhere. This is not a Taiwan 
only 
>forum, but for the world community. We came from Malaysia, Indonesia, 
>Singapore, Australia, Canada, Mauritius, India, UK, USA, as well as 
China 
>and Taiwan. Most of us are not interested in political issues in Taiwan 
or 
>China.
>
>It would be appreciated if you would discuss such matters in the right 
>forum.
>
>Rgds,
>-------------
>Original Text
>From: Kong Family <kongfam@eastnet.com.cn>, on 3/7/98 9:36 AM:
>To: "John Guo" <hakka98@hotmail.com>
>Cc: <hakka@brooklaw.edu>, <franchin@panix.com>, <chang_man@hotmail.com>
>
>This is the Hakka Network and not a forum on Taiwan Independence.  Why 
is 
>Mr
>Guo persisting in pursuing the question in this forum.  Hakkas born and
>brought up elsewhere do not give a damn about Taiwean independence, 
that is
>an issue for people in Taiwan.
>
>Lester Kong
>
>John Guo wrote:
>
>> Mr. Man,
>>
>> This question is then passed to you.
>>
>> Do you support Taiwan Independence?
>> a)Yes,
>> b)No,
>> c)Don't Know
>>
>> >Received: from 202.82.49.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>> >       Thu, 05 Mar 1998 08:49:43 PST
>> >X-Originating-IP: [202.82.49.62]
>> >From: "mako do" <chang_man@hotmail.com>
>> >To: hakka@brooklaw.edu, franchin@panix.com, hakka98@hotmail.com
>> >Subject: RE: hakka: Hakka Chinese FAQ
>> >Content-Type: text/plain
>> >Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 08:49:43 PST
>> >
>> >Dear All,
>> >
>> >Dear All,
>> >
>> >I have got the impression that John Guo's comments are very
>> opinionated.
>> >In light of this I would like to comment on his comments.
>> >
>> >1) >A.001. Who are the Hakka Chinese?
>> >   >The Hakka Chinese are a group of migratory Han Chinese
>> >originating in
>> >>northern China, which then moved south and throughout the world. 
They
>> >have
>> >>a distinct Chinese dialect, culture and tradition.
>> >
>> >*Corrections:
>> >"migratory Han Chinese" should be changed to "Han Chinese" and
>> >"then moved south" should be changed to "then migrated to south"
>> >
>> >The original paragraph is perfectly understandable and Johns 
comments
>> >are merely a matter of preference on his part. How many other ways 
can
>> >this paragraph be written? e.g "migratory Han Chinese" could be 
written
>> >"Chinese of Han descent" etc.. The style of writing might change but
>> the
>> >point is the same.What's there to moan about?
>> >
>> >
>> >2) >Hakka people were thought to be a non-Han people of China, like 
the
>> >Hmong.
>> >>This was during a time when other Chinese peoples were in a 
xenophobic
>> >>mood, and were looking for a good excuse for pushing aside Hakka
>> >people.
>> >>However, later scientific and historical study have conclusively
>> >confirmed
>> >>that Hakka people are derived from the Han Chinese people.
>> >>
>> >>Hakka are not Mongolians or Tibetans, although there probably are
>> Hakka
>> >>people that live there, as they are around the world. The Hakka 
should
>> >also
>> >>not be confused with the Tonka (the Chinese folks that live on 
boats
>> >all
>> >>their lives in the Hong Kong area).
>> >>
>> >>We'll get to the language part in question B.100 .
>> >>
>> >
>> >*This whole section should be deleted.
>> >There is no such question. Stop asking questions in Cantonese
>> >and Hokkienese perspective who are then considered "non-Chinese" by
>> >many other Chinese. So such questions should not be asked.
>> >
>> >I don't agree, I think it's OK as it is. It seems to me that Chinese
>> >people on the whole will always say that this group aren't Chinese 
and
>> >this group are. From what I have read on this forum it is a relevant
>> >comment since it seems that it isn't just the Cantonese that
>> >discriminate hakka people. The paragraph shows that evidence
>> contradicts
>> >this attitude.i.e "later scientific and historical study have
>> >conclusively confirmed that Hakka people are derived from the Han
>> >Chinese people".
>> >
>> >3)>B. 002  Why are Hakka people called "Hakka"?
>> >>
>> >>"Hak-ka" is Cantonese for "guest people", an euphemism for
>> "foreigner",
>> >>"barbarian" or "interloper". (In Mandarin/Putonghwa, the term is
>> >>"Kei-jia".)
>> >>
>> >
>> >*Delete the portion after euphemism. None-sense.
>> >
>> >Why is this nonsense? Cantonese people do see it as a derogatory 
term.
>> I
>> >don't know about Mandarin though.
>> >
>> >4)>Hakka people migrated from northern China into what is now 
Kwangtung
>> >>Provence. The indigenous Cantonese people, who called themselves
>> >"Punti",
>> >>didn't exactly appreciate Hakka immigrants settling in their 
farmland.
>> >This
>> >>lead to a series of major battles between the two groups. For some
>> >reason,
>> >>the Hakka ended up adopting the name given to them by the Punti (I
>> >guess
>> >>they must have thought it sounded good).
>> >>
>> >
>> >*this whole section should be deleted. What is Punti? 98%
>> >of Chinese won't know this term. It is like "Peking". Too good
>> >that Cantonese reach English language first because British boats
>> >reached Canton first.
>> >
>> >Why should this be deleted? For the 98% of Chinese suggested who do 
not
>> >know the term, 98% of the Hakka population will probably have at the
>> >very least heard the term, especially those whose origins are with
>> those
>> >who settled in the Kwangtung region.
>> >>
>> >5)>B. 003  What's so special about Hakka people?
>> >>
>> >>Hakka people have a long tradition of making the best of whatever
>> >situation
>> >>they are in; if the situation is truly bad, then they have no 
qualms
>> in
>> >>moving on to a better one. We'd like to think of this as
>> >"perseverance",
>> >>although sometimes this turns out to be "pigheadedness".
>> >>
>> >>As such, this led to practices which were considered practical 
(read,
>> >"low
>> >>classed and barbaric") by other Chinese peoples of the day, but 
today
>> >would
>> >
>> >*Pratical is "low class and barbaris"? Interesting. The most 
civilzated
>> >people are often the most pratical people.
>> >
>> >But other Chinese peoples of the time considered it (Hakka
>> practicality)
>> >low classed and Barbaric. I think this is the point that is being
>> >brought across to us.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>B. 201  Who's some famous Hakka people (in alphabetical order by
>> >surname)?
>> >>
>> >>Raymond Chung           First president of Guyana
>> >>Deng Xiaoping           Chinese Communist leader
>> >>Lee Kuan Yew            Singapore statesman
>> >>Sun Yat-sen             Father of modern China
>> >general Yu Fei?
>> >Was Chiang Kai Shek Hakka?
>> >>
>> >>[Please nominate any more people that ought to be here]
>> >
>> >With respect to all parties I have yet to see a constructive 
criticism
>> >from Mr. Guo.
>> >e.g "World Journal is a very biased newspaper and the design,
>> >layoutcolor, photography, is very awkward and primitive. It truely
>> >reflects your Yet identity".
>> >What has design to do with content? What does "Yet identity" mean?
>> apart
>> >from being poor English I can't quite grasp what he thinks a "Yet
>> >Identity" is.
>> >
>> >Having read mail asking "Do you support Taiwan independence blah 
blah..
>> >I agree with teoh@cs.utk.edu "Lets spend more time talk about food,
>> >clothing, festivals, and Hakka custom than if Hakka were actually 
the
>> >fifth son or the 3rd son of Adam".
>> >
>> >Mako
>> >
>> >
>> >______________________________________________________
>> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>> ______________________________________________________
>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>> ====================================================================
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>> Subscribe: mail majordomo@brooklaw.edu with body "subscribe hakka"
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>
>
>
>
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>
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>`
>end
>


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