Re: Chinese lingustical observation

[sllee <sllee@asiawind.com>]

Charles, 

I hope you don't mind me sending your letter to the Hakka maillist and
forum. You should join us for this discussion by writing to :

fhakka@asiawind.com
hakka@mini.brooklaw.edu

I think you brought up some interesting points:  

1. Similarities between Korean, Japanese and Cantonese, Hakka. I do
believe that Hakka was the ancient language that had great influence on
Korean and Japanese language.

2. There was a major conflict between Toishan and other Sei Yup counties
with the Hakkas during the Qing dynasty. After some bloodshed, the Hakka
was moved to Chiak Kai (I am using Hakka and Cantonese pronunciation here,
literally "red stream"), south of the Toishan peninsula. Apparently there
was some intereaction, and so there should be some mixed use of the
dialects. BTW, Toishan area was agriculturally a very poor region. The
lack of resources was the main reason for the conflict.

SL Lee

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On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, Charles Louie wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if you know if the Hakka people have ever settled in an
> area about 65 km south of the Pearl Delta in a region known as SzeYup or
> Toisan (Taishan). The reason why I ask is that some of the Hakka words
> resemble Toisanese words such as the word for "man", "gold", "salt",
> "drink" and others as well that is unrecognizable to a person who speaks
> standard Cantonese. I live in San Francisco where a large majority of
> the Chinese here trace their roots back to Toisan (locally known as
> Hoisan). The Cantonese have claimed Toisanese as a dialect of Cantonese
> and it is generally acepted as fact. I have found that most Toisanese
> speakers can speak and understand Cantonese but not the other way
> around. Growing up in San Francisco, the Toisan Chinese always
> identified ourselves as Cantonese but I never understood why a Cantonese
> speaker has great difficulty understanding our language. Could it be a
> possiblity that Cantonese, Toisanese, and Hakka once belonged to a
> common language? It seems like the Cantonese speakers like the Hakka
> also make the same claim that poetry of the Tang Dynasty rhymes better
> in their dialect.
> 
> I have also studied a little Japanese and have noticed some simalarities
> with "Cantonese" in that the the "streatching" of vowels changes the
> word meaning in Japanese just like it does in Cantonese and Toisanese.
> I've also noticed on reading pre-pinyin maps of China that in Manchuria,
> words end in hard consonents just as they do in Cantonese unlike in
> Mandarin. I've often wondered if there was a connection. But through my
> personal research I have accepted the fact that the Toisan people were
> originally a Thai tribe that has been sino-sized over the centuries.
> Looking at restaurant menus, I've noticed animal pronunciations in Thai,
> Vietnamese, Cantonese, Toisanese seem to have more simialarities than
> they would compared to Mandarin. Another observation I have made is that
> many Korean surnames seem to have a "Cantonese" pronunciation
> equivalent. I don't know if there is a connection somewhere but perhaps
> Hakka might be the cultural and liguistical bridge.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Charles Louie
>