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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Cindy (218.24.86.---)
Date:   11-18-04 08:29

I am an American of Mexican descent who currently teaches English in China. Last night I went out with my boss and another director to eat. The director kept saying how beautiful I was. He would walk me to the bathroom and wait to walk me back to the table. All of a sudden he decided to kiss me and did it very forcefully in front of my boss, my boss did nothing. I was shoked! Then he decided to touch my breasts infront of my boss and my boss did nothing. I got very scared. I then asked to be taken home immediately. I thought Chinese men were gentil not aggresive and forceful. They have given me a bad image of Chinese men. Why did they both at this way? Are they just jerks???

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Norma Lie (---.dsl.telesp.net.br)
Date:   11-18-04 09:02

Cindy,

I´m an overseas Chinese and have never lived in China, so I wouldn´t know whether this behaviour would be considered normal. Abroad I have never heard or seen such a thing!! I think they thought you as a foreigner would be liberal so they did that. They are just jerks, big .......................! You should have a talk with them both and tell them they´re a big shame!!
Stand up and don´t be afraid to lose your job! Let them use their head, the correct one! Why should you be the one to feel shame, while they´re the ones who should feel so ashamed as to disappear??!!

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: lc_230 (---.klt40.jaring.my)
Date:   11-18-04 19:09

Dear Cindy,

If I were u,I will not hestitate to give both of them a piece of my mind.This is sexual harrassment as well as uncalled professional exploitation.People generally are all the same regardless of their origins.Guess they lack moral conduct.Do be extra careful in future or u ll encounter unpleasant happening.

lc-230

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Ho Cim-Hi (203.17.125.---)
Date:   11-18-04 19:35

Cindy, it's terrible to hear what you had to go through.

I think this is another case of sexual harassment by someone in a position of power. He obviously doesn't know how to treat another person with respect and believed that you could just take what he wanted.

Your boss should be ashamed of himself as well for not having the spine to help you. He was probably afraid to stand up for you because it would mean that he would cause his boss to lose face.

You find people like this everywhere, not just among Chinese.

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Cindy (202.107.124.---)
Date:   11-21-04 11:30

Thanks:) I agree, he probably didn't want to look stupid in front of the other person. But he looks stupid anyway. I appreciate your feedback. I am glad I came across this website. Thank you:)

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Cindy (202.107.124.---)
Date:   11-21-04 11:35

Yes, thank you. I will do that, I will go talk to him tomorrow. Because if I dont say anything or do anything this will linger in my thoughts as if I did something wrong. This could have gone further and I could have been in deep danger.. Yes, they have a misconception of Western women, as being liberal. One Chinese student told me that in American movies, people meet and kiss right away, and they think thats what all Americans do...

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Cindy (202.107.124.---)
Date:   11-21-04 12:01

Yes. It all began with dinner, and a couple of beers and this happened! I thought to have been in the safe company of my boss, and I wasn't. Next time I will make sure to avoid going with a group less than 2, especially when I dont feel comfortable...You know I consider myself an outgoing person, happy, always chatting with people etc. perhaps they are misenterpreting me...... Besides the college students, I also teach English to the college professors. Theres an older teacher in there, who called me this past thursday to invite me to dinner but I declined due to the problem I had recently.This a teacherwho taught at Harvard, etc. Why would I be afraid of a man who seems so professional, old enough to be my grandfather. Two nights after I had that problem with those 2 other individuals and I tried to move on something else happens. Now, this teacher calls my room everyday since, and he asked me to invite him to my "room" for dinner. For What??????????????? I do not invite anyone to my room, not even my students. I try to find something innocent behind this, and professional, but after what happened with those other two rats. I do not trust anyone men at this University. My gut feeling is right, and he probably has some bad intentions. I cant explain why this is happening. Everything was okay, and this starts happening. I dont understand why they think American women are a bunch of floozies (at this University). I leave in a month back to the US, I am breaking my contract. I was leaving for other reasons, but now there are more reasons to incude. This school has some issues that need to be resolved, and I am, preparing to go talk to the dean tomorrow, and inform him about the rats that work at this University. What do I know, perhaps somethig similar has happened at this University to other Chinese female students or female teachers... Thanks to those who are reading this and giving me feedback.

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Andries Zijlstra 
Date:   11-21-04 12:14

Dear Cindy,

I feel a lot of sympathy for you. I must say that during the three years we passed in China my wife felt always comfortable and it was even such that when she wanted to give a friendly hug to a close friend he was really so shy that he almost refused. Anyhow in your case it is very difficult to choose between a professional and a personal approach. If you want to keep your position I think it is better not to mention it at all but to avoid similar situations in future. As a human being I understand your anger and would defend you but at the same time I know a bit of this world where "bastards" are often ruling. Anyhow like I said it is really exceptional in China that men get aggressive. In Arab countries it is much more common that men think that all Western ladies especially blondies are "easy". I hope that you can cope with this and please avoid over acting because when Chinese men are exceptionally sexually abusive towards women, all Chinese men are too proud to be humiliated. Good luck and please forget this incident and enjoy life,

Andries

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Norma Lie (---.dsl.telesp.net.br)
Date:   11-21-04 13:07

Dear Andries,

Alles goed?

I´m afraid I have to disagree with you when you say "I think it is better not to mention it at all but to avoid similar situations in future". As a woman you can´t avoid these situations: what I mean is that you never know how a human being reacts! Cindy thought it very innocent to be invited by those 2 jerks and wouldn´t even imagine that would happen! Chinese men are too proud to be humiliated?? Then they should think before they act!!! Cindy, it´s the first time but it won´t be the last time this will happen in your life, but now you know that you should be prepared!! You don´t want to hurt their feelings but if they insist they should be humiliated!! That dirty old man probably heard from the jerks what happened the other night and he was trying to get his part!!
They´re just dirty men!! Not only Chinese are like this, men are men!!You´ll find them anywhere, but just be businesslike when you talk to men before you really get to know them!!

Chinese are not used to being hugged, which is true. It makes them feel embarrassed.

Best wishes,
Norma Lie

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Andries Zijlstra 
Date:   11-21-04 15:30

Dear Norma,

Dank je wel. Your reaction as a woman is normal and indeed I hesitated to say this because basically I think that these bad men should be confronted with their foolish behaviour. The only reason that I advised to be "diplomatic" is for professional self protection where as a human being I feel disgusted. I hope that you understand my mixed feelings between human anger and professional "self defence". My intention was not to let Cindy believe that she should forgive but to consider her future. As I see now she decided already to terminate here contract in order to avoid further unwanted aproaches. It is really terrible that a young lady has to resign to escape from these stupid men. As a man I feel collectively ashamed although not personally guilty.

Groetjes,
Andries

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: fil 
Date:   11-24-04 20:58

Cindy,

what city and what university are you at? Perhaps i can contact the ploice for you if you wishes. It is a crime that has been commited in China.

fil

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   11-28-04 08:47

Lust has not nationality :) maybe you are way too attractive to him :) But to have a frontal attack is of poor taste and also of poor manner -- and that goes for all nationalities - that man has to be slapped and he owes you an apology --- and if your boss did nothing - time to quit that freaking job -----.

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   11-28-04 09:02

That is merely the world manner and demanor or protocol.

I am Chinese and I grew up in my beloved Brazil ---and we mingled with Italians, Portuguese and many more Europeans.

In years past, upon meeting a lady or a women -- for casualness, we shook hands. When we met our family, for women we kissed both cheeks and lightly (when we are not so close) . often, in the 60s - for a single woman we joke to have one more kiss (third kiss) and we say " o terceiro para casar" -- or the Third kiss is to have you marry off :)

For man, if we are close, we embrace (or Abracamos).

Often in kissing the other gender, we refrain our body contacts, the lower portion of the body is always arched away -- never the pelvic of us touched.

As we have lived now also in the US -- in the norther hemisphere - yes, life can be a bit cooler, so are the folks :) -- But let us have some good understanding of our greetings..

Rumor had said where the Americans have big bubbles -- where we say "hi" by waving and seldom hand shaking that was due to the frontier days when men are on horse backs...(again, any one can chime in for any comments or corrections ).

Hand shakes were developed by the old warriros offering their arms --- as the arm that carry arms -- or swords. Thus extending a hand is to offer peace --

In most Islamic countyr or in the Arab friends Ihave encounter, kissing both cheeks is still a form of greeting amongst friends.

If these Chinese had not learned or to have grown to be accustomed to western way or other way of manner--- be respectful in our own mannter.

I do not take claim to know how to eat sushi or order Sushi properly in Japan -- but we have a brain and we have a mouth --- be nice to your guide or your interpretor and let them walk you thru ----- We have a mouth and we can always ask or we can ask them of their "pardon" if our demeanor is erroneous.


As in Thailand, I love kids, I pat them in their heads as I also do soccer coaching in the US and in Brazil -- we touch often --- but in Thailand, the temple of the head is also their "holy temple" --- so do not touch them their heads, unless they know your gesture has well meaning. I have also noticed in Thailand, crossing ones legs is very impolite ....


I hope these Chinese teachers or students does not see your gesture of friendliness is a sign of "come on"----- and often in the many American university so called "date rapes" was due to the missignals from mamy females given to the male ---

I have been a university college counselor also where I have witnessed numerous where boys were invited to the girls dorm---- where both were alone -- petting, kissing and "making out" -- but for the many so called hot blooded Latins --- yes, Brazilians -- have been accused for their advances or sexual advances when and where the situation was that --- Why invite a man or a boy into your bedroom--- and why go as far as to have bodily contacts, that goes into heavy petting, kissing ------- and yet, when the male is aroused --- there is that "fine" moral values in every one of us -- when to draw the line.

Americans by in large are very casual --- but to have a full sexual contact is another story --

I hope this posting serves a reminder for all of us --- your manner, your signals may read differently from different regions. dress code, low line clothing maybe a form of "invite" unbeknown to you or your guest or your associates.

In your case, tell the boss , you are offended -- and that is another good example for anyone engaging foreigners to know--- an Mexcian American is not the same as European or anyone esle -- Sexual advances is sexual offense -- while flirtation is an "invitation" or response of any male or female sexual calls.

I am blunt in this manner for I have seen enough misreadings in different cultures ---- Just to be embraced by a western women and with their breast pressed against you -- Is not a mating call -- I am saying so for the many Chinese --speically many of them have delayed puberty where they have seldom known or have touched a woman.

I beg your forgiveness is this message is overly blunt.

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   11-28-04 09:06

But I also want to add one more comment. In years back where I have taken students to Italy on tour..

Instead of seeing the reat Cistine chapel and the arts --some female hormonal driven had seen more of their hotel's ceiling by having sex with the local waiters and bus boys :)

yes, maybe I grew up a bit more pompously in my days from Brazil - If you stay in my house, I sure do not expect to bed my maids or go to bed with my chauffers :) You can be democratic but you also have manners when yo uare being hosted or housed by someone -- mutual respect is mutual respect.

for those who are sexually aroused -- do me a favor , pay for a whore and they are ample every where --- if you got aids -- as my best Brazilian pal told me --- " I will kill you so I can save your wife and family " :)

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   11-28-04 09:15

Instead of quitting -- request a meeting face to face with the boss -- If you quit and without sound reasoning - you are leaving room for the same predators to prey on the next female teacher ---- Unless we now only sent those good size Amazon women -- or any big women so they dare not to abuse -- These kind of behavior should not be tolerated anywhere .

Sexuality is not a sin it is all about consent -- I have taught that when I was teaching a master degree class for all counselors - I am not here to be a moralist - I have told my counselor staff f- If you have sex with a student or an affair with a student, even if you are married --- that is not a crime -- but maybe a dishonor against your own spouse -- But to have affair with a "counselee" , who maybe vulnerable -- yes, any psychologist, psychiatrist or good professional counselor will attest that -- many of could have a "physical" relationship with any of our counselees--- But remember, these students or counselees are in a total "different " psychological situation than us ---- and it is absolutey wrong to have a sexual relationship with people you are working toward resolving problems - But trust me, in todays world -- all things can happen -- But ones moral code has to be hold up in good ethnical places.

I hope all those of you who claim to be professionals -- be a professional , do not let any bright eye students to be fallen into become a teahcer pet --- in psychology we call this "transference" where many younger students are attracted to the confidence of a teacher, a counselor or a psychologist ------ Because they are vulnerable .

Do me a favor, Cindy, give a full report to your boss -- they also have to know that where they themselves may have encounter more liberal situation when they were in the US --- As a matter of fact, yes, many women recently or during my time in college had tried to "score" with Asians or any foriegn students -- as in sampling exotic dishes :) and later both got ditched .

One has toknow when we are a sexual predator or prey --- like I have said - got sexual desires ? pay for it -- it is much cleaner -- if you have contracted sexual illness -- that is you own demise :)

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   11-28-04 09:23

Andries, I think she will have to give her boss one more chance - by telling him her feeling indignant and insulted -- even in written form - I have suggest such gesture is to prevent from future happening.

I have no qualm for foreign students and their host to have wild sex - again with consent --

let me tell you one of the situation which you may find it comical -- that is who much I love that spontaneity ofmy Brazilians :)

I have one female mentor /professor from Brazil came teacching here in the US --- We are very good friends -- and she had told me she had gone into Chicago on her own -- just for oneday, hanging around a Mexican neighbor for a whole day !!!!
And I asked her "why".

She grinned and said " Paul, geez, these Americans or gringos are so cold" they don't look at us women like our men in Brazil "

So, she went off to chicago for one whole day -- just so she can feel like a real Latin women ....

But does that make her a sexual "object" ? No.....But can those words be misinterepreted ? yes ....


We all have different outlook and sexual values --- But we have to be mindful in what we read of the others "sexual" signals -- Be mindufl that those sexual signals may not meant for you.

I am more ashamed of these so called school administrators -- they themselves probably had other female teachers who were more liberal -- but if they are the leaders and htey are in a control position -- are they not suggesting in the abuse of their power ? I am totally against that - It is notthe sex issue --It becomes a power issue ----. cindy has to make known to them or to future "teachers" into China -- for the goodness of Chinese and for the standard of being professional - No one has to exploit any incoming forein teachers ------ That is my take and I feel totally offended by the action of these "assholes"-- They are not PHDs -- but mreely a batch of "A Pile Higher and deeper" morons.

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 Re: Chinese Dating
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   11-28-04 09:26

These folks if working for me will be fired on the spot ----- :)

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