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 I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Yu Li-Shi (61.149.14.---)
Date:   06-07-02 21:31

I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Yu Li-Shi (61.149.14.---)
Date: 06-07-02 21:24

Many of overseas Chinese prefer speak English when he talks to a Chinese people only because he hate to act like a Chinese. Last year I read a aticle called "I AM AN AMERICAN" by a Chinese-American, which was published on the most influential official newspaper in China, "Globe Times".

In this article she explains she was brouhgt up in America, cultivated with the American education though she was born in Hongkong, as a result, she has been irrevocably shaped by American culture and her ideas and outlook on life are all American. In addition, she one side complains we Chinese people treat her neither Chinese nor American, one side shows her difference with us Chinese. How we Chinese people think of her in this case. Her argument sounds more like an excuse for why "I am an ONLY American". According to her logic those Jews and other foreigners who were born in China are all Chinese because they accepted Chinese Education?

It is ironical I read another article with its theme utterly opposite to that of this one on the same paper, titled "I Love China", written by an American. The author said: "I love Chinese people, Chinese culture, although I am an American born in America. But I feel sorry a lot of Chinese consider me as a foreigner. I want to be accept by Chinese."

In recent years, those pople who are involved in espionage cases, threatening China's interests, are not the aliens, but some overseas Chinese, who share the same ancestry with us and, unexpectedly, all come from US.

I would like to pose a question for those PUPPET BANANA, If China is going back to the bitter days what if someone call us fellow Chinese "dong-ya-bing-fu"(the sick man of Asia)? Do you think this is NOT a SHAME because "I AM AN AMERICAN"?

I don't believe a person who don't respect his forefather will be respect by the people in his adopted country.

P.S. I don't think there is something wrong to be an America. The problem is among those Chinese-Americans that some overseas Chinese people choose or be chosen to be SHAMLESS PUPPET BANANA. The "Fang Fu-Ming case" is a perfect example, it is more like "I have to kill my mother for my adoptive mother".

I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI(pseudo foreign devils). Ah-Q!



Yu Li-Shi

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI(correction)
Author: Yu Li-Shi (61.149.14.---)
Date:   06-07-02 21:33

...Last year I read an article called ...

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 Chinese culture, Chinese value
Author: SL Lee (---.columbus.rr.com)
Date:   06-08-02 06:14

Li-Shi,

Chinese born in foreign countries may or may not be able to receive the kind of education as a Chinese in China does. One's way of thinking is mostly molded by the environment, the family and the media. The diversity of philosophy among Chinese in foreign land is just as much as Chinese in China. You can find someone who does not speak any Chinese, yet can accept Chinese culture or even devote to study of Chinese culture. You can also find Chinese brought up in China who don't have any Chinese culture other than speaking a Chinese language.

In the future years, a new generation of Chinese in US as adopted children in Caucasian families will also grow with an identity that is interesting. They have no knowledge of their birth parents. They look like Chinese (or Asians) but they have no contact with Chinese culture. How are they defined? The lack of Chinese culture in them is not their own choice.

I talked to some of the adopting parents. Many of them do want to have their children grow up with some ties to the origin culture (other than Chinese, there are Koreans and other nationalities).

One way to reduce discrimination by the physical feature is through this group and through the reduced racial identity.

What is important is the value of Chinese culture.
As I mentioned in the Hakka forum before, some Hakka may have lost their linguistic ability totally because they are the 4th generation in a "foreign country", which to them is not foreign at all. They are the native of that country. Yet many of these Hakkas still identify themselves by their Chinese cultural roots and want to learn about their root culture. It is the value that is important to them. They can still read Chinese philosophy translated into English, learn Chinese history and geography. Some even try to learn the language.

Do not blame those who are brought up in a different environment for what they have no control on. Culture is like a flavor or taste. Unless you have tried it and like it, it is hard to describe and impose on some one.

What you can do is learn more about Chinese culture and Chinese value and then help others do so. At the same time also try to learn other cultures and be willing to accept the best into your own. Eventually there is only one world culture. In Chinese culture, it is also the ideal for long lasting world peace.

SL Lee

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Lau Guan Kim (203.116.61.---)
Date:   06-08-02 10:19

Little Yu,

Wow, what a passion!

Because I and many stood up as Chinese that we lost our careers, some of friends going to jail as long as more than 22years. My own brother-in-law went to jail for more than 4 years for his political beliefs.

I lost a career in the civil service!

Often I was asked why I know so well about China and her history by people who were more fluent in Chinese than I. Even among the English-educated, I was singled-out as a communist because of my love for China.

In this forum recently you have been used by a Westerner to attack me because of my pro-China stand where I stood up for Mao Zedong as a Chinese. For that I was branded a Red Guard waving the Red Book by the same Westerner. Many Westerners would exploit the quarrel between Chinese to further their political agenda.

BTW, your use of "banana" was what I introduced the term in an American Forum. It was coined by Zhou Enlai for Chinese who lost their Chinese roots and culture. It means a Chinese who is yellow outside, but white inside, for the benefit of those who do not know the meaning of the term.

Finally, I am proud to be a Chinese!

See:

http://www.asiawind.com/forums/read.php?f=2&i=208&t=208


Lau Guan Kim
Singapore

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Lau Guan Kim (203.116.61.---)
Date:   06-08-02 10:56

OK, you just pressed the ‘attack mode’ button in me, Tin-kay and Little Yu.

Yes, there are some Chinese ashamed to be Chinese.

Their mother’s with the Emperor’s Eight Eggs.!

Even Minoxidil will not add more hairs on their head to the two strands they already have.

Anyone who doubts I am a Chinese will get more than the 9-11 treatment from me. And anyone who doubts my loyalty to Singapore better make sure you are not behind in your insurance premium.

Those bananas with their dyed hair. Not proud to be Chinese and wannabe white.

O, how I despise them!


Guan Kim

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Lau Guan Kim (203.116.61.---)
Date:   06-08-02 11:07

Finally, any Chinese wannabe white, better eat more hard-boiled eggs than bananas.

With hard-boiled eggs, though you have become white outside, hopefully, you will eventually be yellow inside.

And now, those who wanna take my Chineseness from me, please step into the tatami in my dojo.

Hajime!

Only just one mawashigeri will finish the job!



Lau Guan Kim
Singapore

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: John Mak 
Date:   06-08-02 21:03


Li-Shi,

You are young.
As you grow older,your outlook will change.
Many of us love China and the Chinese culture, at the same time we need
to earn our living,we need to integrate into the host society,if we don't
we will be only able to take the job in Chinatown,not very well paid.
Once we move outside Chinatown,we develop relationship,in my case
I married a European girl, I must admit I have not been successful
to sinicize my children, their Chineseness is only in food,religion is another
factor that leads us away from the fundamental Chinese such as Taoism,
religion is also a motive force that changes culture.
Guan Kim writes how Chinese he is,as an individual ,there is no doubt about it.
he has the luck to live in a country with 75% Chinese,even that there is
a difference between a Chinese from China and a Chinese from Singapore.
Now many of us live in community that has very few Chinese among the population.
On the question on languages,you mentioned in one of your posting,
the Chinese does not converse in Chinese ,here again you need to
understand many of us do not learn putonhua. An example, I work with
a Chinese from Hong-Kong,he speaks Cantonese and I speaks some Hakka
we are like chicken talking to ducks.
As for people who looks down on people who does not speak English is
just arrogant and bad manners.
As for the "banana",they are in difficulty as well,some of them may have
tried to join the Chinese community,they were rejected as "fan-kwei"
or "kwei-low",in the end they come to term to themselves.
The host nation sees you as traitors if you do not swear allegiance to the
flag and the nation.
Once one leaves the Chinese shore, one cannot stay Chinese forever,
Chinese culture will stay for some times, soon or later one will be absorbed into the host culture,this is the natural development of life.

John.

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Yu Li-Shi (61.149.15.---)
Date:   06-19-02 03:35

Well, I was not saying the people here. I was saying there are many people really wanna be white.

BTW, could I know the reason that you lost your career and the other people who went to jail? I'm just for curious, what kind of political beliefs were baned in singapore?

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Lau Guan Kim (203.116.61.---)
Date:   06-19-02 10:06

In short, those who supported China and advocated a better life for the Chinese-educated.

Singapore was virulently anti-China and pro-West more that twenty years ago. Now with a strong and powerful China, and getting richer, Lee Kuan Yew has a different opinion.


My friends in prison were branded communists. A communist would be put to jail.


Lau Guan Kim

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: phil (---.ab.hsia.telus.net)
Date:   07-01-02 21:04

Li-shi,


The world is big and there are many shades of "Chineseness" in it. My two brothers and me were born In China. My family left China when I was 10, my two brothers wre 7 and 6. The 3 years diffence is a whole lot. I can speak Chinese but both of them can barely speak any after 20 years in Canada. Chinese around the world are products of their environment. It does not mean they are not proud to be Chinese. Speaking Chinese is not a good measure of a patriotic and loyal chinese. We cheer for China in the world cup, we cheered for the Chinese Women Soccer team when they played the USA 2 years ago, yet we 3 brothers can barely speak Chinese or know much about China.

Oversea Chinese must adjust to survive and get good jobs in their adopted land. Sometime it means losing one's mother tongue because there are no Chinese class mates in their adopted land and even fewer Chinese schools. I recall there were only 9 chinese children in my primary school.

I learned Putonghua in University. I studied it with a passion. After graduation I took a job in China as teacher. What an experience it was!!
Some good and some bad. Some students treated me like a White Canadian and some treated me like I was a local Chinese like them. Am I not a foreign Citizen? Why did each student teated me different Li-shi? Because of all of them have a interpretation of who I am. One student asked me do I consider myself to be Chinese or Canadian? Since I was born in China with two Chinese parent and raise in Canada, I answear: "My father is Chinese and my mother is Canadian." How he interpret it is up to him. I call myself Chinese-Canadian. I am neither a "yang gui zi " nor a full mainland Chinese praticing Chines culture. And calling me not a Chinese is a grave mistake.

Here is how others Consider me:
Chinese Foreign Ministry: A Canadian Citizen of Chinese decent.
Foreign Affairs offer in my College: a Chinese.
Students: A Chinese-Canadian friend.

After my teaching, I travelled throughout China. In each city I was treated a little different. The best treatment I got was in Beijing by Beijingers. In Xian I was treated well as a foreign citizen even though i was yelled at by hotel staff. In Harbin I was treated like a outsider beacause I spoke Putonghua with a Southern accent and many shop keepers scream and yell at me becuase I look like a southern student and I did not understand what they said. I was glad to see a student saved me from a good beatting by locals. He apperently recognize me and explained that I was the new "Wai -Jiao" and I did not understand that I have to drink my softdrink on the spot and return the bottle immediately to the shop keeper. the shop kepper was affraid I was going to take his bottle as I walked out the door after I paid for my softdrink. (Note: A southern student lost an eye one weekend at the hand of a reastaurant owner's boyfriend. No charges was laid.)

In Shangahi, my experiences were not very differnet from my Harbin Eeperiences. I did not speak Shanghaiese and did not understand what they said. By this time my mandarin were much better, but what was the use, I still did not understand what the shanghai people said and they did not speak madarin. and I speak mandarin with a southern accent and look no differnt from the young migrants in Shanghai. As you can guess the treatment I got. Go home and get out of Shangahi!!!

In essence, I rather speak English with locals to begin with to let them know I am a foreinger and if they did not speak English, I will speak my limited Putonghua to communicate so I will enjoy my holiday and get better treatment from local Chinese. So, Li-shi, I can imagine the experences of the female America writer you "hate". Since she was brought up in America, I think it is safe to conclude her Putonghua is not good like many oversea Chinese people. She would perfer to speak English so she can articulate herself better and more clearly. So, we can not blame "Many of overseas Chinese prefer speak English when he talks to a Chinese people." We would like to speak Chinese if only our Chinese were better.

Here is a question for you , Lishi, Since all Chinese in China are all Chinese, then why is some Chinese migrants in Big cities like Shanghai treated like dogs? I been told by my students I speak better Putonghua better than some students from Guangdong and Gansu, Does that mean I am more Chinese than them and that I know more about Chinese culture than them?

Therefore, one must look into its own commuity and socierty to see what it really represents. Is China not big enough to embrace the far distant putonghua challenged cousins?

phil

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: lisa c (---.biz.mindspring.com)
Date:   07-02-02 13:29

Overseas Chinese are on a 2 edged sword. Not considered Chinese in China and not ever fully accepted into society overseas either. We've been split in half. Our future is in the country we're living, working, and having families in but we can't forget our heritage either.

Unlike my dad and grandfather's generation we didn't immigrate with visions of making our fortune and retiring to the old country. We were born outside of China with the expectation that our future is here. If the family connections are still intact we still send $ back to the old country and many schools and families were supported by immigrant money, but we are looked down upon as being to foreign/western. Most of the immigrants that came over did back breaking work to support family back in China and didn't have the time to pass on a lot of the culture, but they did the best they could to ensure that we were educated and had a better future. Circumstances and economics saw that we are OBCs, don't hate us because we aren't the Chinese enough to suit you. Could you do any better if you were born and educated in a foreign land?

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Charles Temico 
Date:   07-02-02 17:06

This reminds me of an encounter had a while back:-
During my frequent travels to the Middle East I have met many second or third generation "Chinese" from the West. Many of them, especially those who coudn't't speak any Chinese, introduce themselves to me by their present nationalities and not by their race, e.g. American, British, French, Canadian etc. Very few would even say Chinese-American, French-Chinese, British-Chinese, Canadian-Chinese etc. (Remember I am, I speak and I look Chinese). At one time I met a "Chinese-looking" guy who introduced himself as Andrew "Cinfaiman"( or something similar to that as I didn't catch the surname properly). He introduced himself as American and when I asked him where he was originally from, he replied "Bermuda"!! To my knowledge, it is a fact that in the olden days, illiterate Chinese immigrants to the West would write in the section "surname" or "last name" in any legal forms their WHOLE names to avoid the confusion of Chinese surnames which precede the given names. "Cinfaiman(?)" could be a Chinese name and the "face" resembles a Chinese face but BERMUDA is certainly not Chinese!! If Chinese people living abroad are PROUD of and WANT to preserve their Chinese identity, it is for them to teach and INSTIL that identity in their future generations otherwise the only "Chinese" to endure will be in their FACES!! Remember, NAMES CAN ALSO BE CHANGED!!!!

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: phil (66.222.156.---)
Date:   07-02-02 23:23



Li-shi,
You said: "I was saying there are many people really wanna be white."
You never lived in North America. You never experiences the sufferings of some of the Chinese people here. Some feel they are not accepted by their peers, class mates, co-workers even though they try very hard to fit in to the group of white people. They never get invited to birthday parties or get pick last to be on a sport team. I know some Chinese people wish they were white so life would be so hard and have more friends. So, you can not blame them they do not wish to be called "Chinese", but "Americans." Their lives ares here and their future are here, not in China. However, the majority of the oversea Chinese are very proud of their hertage.

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Cecilia (211.99.161.---)
Date:   06-22-04 17:42

Well, I think there's no law says that a person should respect for his/her forefather. Maybe he/she has a quite different personality and values from the most people in his/her home country. We are all different and unique. Just being YOURSELF, whether is more like Chinese or American or any other races, and proud of YOURSELF!

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Li Mei (203.121.0.---)
Date:   08-06-04 05:28

It's so difficult to comment,

honestly I'm very proud to be chinese, but I regret to be born in Indonesia.
I think I was a bit lucky that I was not one of the victim from the riot on 1998. But the fear of it still alive in my mind and my heart, and always be there for the rest of my life.

In my family I was educated by my parents in chinese way, eventhough I cannot speak mandarin, I really passionate to learn that.

But sometimes I feel not comfortable when I meet some chinese who treat me like "fan-kwei" or alien only because I can not speak chinese language and my skin a bit darker. anyway nobody can deny my chinese blood, right? What is their right to judge people like that ? I was not the one who choose where the place I was born.

Please remember to be chinese or other nations is not a shame, it depends on how you act, how you behave and how you respect other people.

If you learn Tao's then you know the guide to be a good person, learn it by heart and don't learn it because only you're chinese.

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   08-22-04 11:45

Well, your sentiment is well expressed in here. Be that of Chinese from overseas, or Chinese born in the overseas regions. Or young Chinese who was raised in the world outside of China.

Indeed, many ofus ( I am one of them) do or did have our own complex way in thinking of China and also from the country or countries we have been raised. There were conflicts and their were also areas were we have also "harmonized".

Nevertheless, there are many areas in what I called "cultural dissonance" . Or we became dissonanted from one culture to the other.

Often, in my experience, and from those who is capable to make those switches from one language to the other, or from one dialect to the other. I have noticed where often in public areas like in restaurants, namely hotels-- hotels in HK or in China. When one use Chinese to place order " or using the word please" ...often times, when one uses English ( not by accident or pretending to be non Chinese, mostly because with guest or other parties who are not Chinese speaking nationals ) When order was placed in English , we often get a much faster response or service. Now, we need to ask -- was that due to the "attitude" where the wait staff wants to please the non-Chinese? or was that they fear of possible complaint ? Or was that a greater courtesy being given to a non Chinese? it can be all of the above or one of the above and plus other scenarios.

Indeed, many Chinese , overseas Chinese who have come to learn about China - many have learned from their direct experience, or have been forwarn or foretold by their own relatives, parents -- and their respective relations.

You have raised very complex issue - Some of the overseas Chinese if and when English was their first language, when situaiton rises ---- in time of need, many may have reversed to their first language to find help. But others may have just using English as their "language of convenience".

Regarding espionage- I am not sure how many ethnic Chinese would have been recruited or enjoy being part of the espionage network for any nations- but that question is fair to be raised.

Regardless, you have raise a good issue and all I can say that you will see more reponse or contribution to the question you have raised in here.

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   08-22-04 11:56

Well said..all are very circumstancial. some have grown up living side by side with other non Chinese, some have lived in their Chinese enclave or Chinese community. Some parents did not allow their children to mingle----Much of that depending upon of the background of the migrant Chinese- some were better educated and more exposed to other cultures and some are not. Some had no options but to mingle, bad or not.....and others had no difficulty in assimilating ......


That is why it is a complex issue. Each one of us may have a different set of circumstances and in how we get along or not get along in and with our surroundings. This goes much the same as in the early days when the Shanghai or other non Cantonese Chinese had gone into HK. Some had mingled and move forwarded-- others had congregated in their own neighbors...some had even gone back to shanghai as in the case of my grand mother.

The Chinese success and failures stories are ample and much of that can be shared for many to review. But we all need to be sensitive to see the situaitons of those who are different than ours - be that overseas Chinese or Chinese who had moved from country to city, from north to south and many more situations.

There were the Chinese who had suffered from the other Chinese and many may have suffered racial discrimination or alienation.

But for those of who can identify and cherish our Chinese culture and heritage -- it is great. For those who do not or have not, they may have the chance to rediscover their old culture by many means. Each one of will have a different set of experience and circumstances that can bring into forum like this -- like story telling...and we all can learn from these different set of circumstances by our own story telling.

This is a good start :)

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Paul Yih (---.mad.wi.charter.com)
Date:   08-22-04 12:06

John, here we meet again :)

You have a bit of a wrong notion. I see cultures are like flavors. As we cook, we may add flavor to the existing dish of meat or ingredient.

Chinese culture in us or outside of us will not vanish. Where you and I may have more the Western exposure - where we may speak less of Chinese.But for generations, our awareness of Chinese culture, in part or in whole are there. Yes, it may fade away further from the generations onward. But life may surprise you more than you think. I have American family now, where their Children who have lived in China- almost like Pearl Buck - who have so much greater command of Chinese and their love of the Chinese culture far beyond you and I.

I can see your clarification where in the old "Ghetto" or ethnic enclaves in many communities in Europe or in the Americas where people of their similar background congregate jointly...as in the mamy so called Puerto Rican district, or Italian town..many have now ceased to existed. But the annual Puerto Rican feast, the Polish, the Irish, the Italian ...so on and so forth continue to prevail and to maintain their respective "flavors" to a new world like US or Canada or in Europe.

I like to see all of us to gain greater flavor of cultures , agian like cooking, we can make us the meat dish with Chinesesoy sauce, oyster sauce, sichuan sauce, or the same as to the Italian spaghetti, or tomatoe sauce, Mexican sauce and many more. Oh, yes we can be flavored..but those ingredients in physical features don't change much.....and cultures of ours are like souls..none of them are physically bonded or attached. I love to see my Chinese-American kids with their irish, Italan bloods to continue to have that Chinese flavor here and there --- and for many more years to come. At least for food,they can never detached from our Chinese food :) neither can you nor I :) and you know it. Every now and then yes, we can enjoy a Tbone with just salt. But no others can absorb the rich flavors , cultural flavors from us Chinese :) I beg to differ. At least, not for a few hundred of years.

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: sailormars (---.cpe.net.cable.roger)
Date:   09-21-04 10:32

Too much to read... haha.. All I can say is, from my experience, as a Chinese who was born and raised in HK and later emmigrated to Canada, ABC or CBC are different from people like us. ABC or CBC are different from the mainstream white culture too, if some of them think that they are no different from the white people, haha, all the best to them. The truth is, many ABC / CBC are struggling for their identities in a white dominant society. Since white people is the dominant bodies - socially and historically, I can understand that some ABC /CBC would try their best to fit in with the white people even if it means to turn their back to their heritage. I have to say, there are some CBC I met, who would think lower of me and think that I am (FOB - Fresh off the boat). The truth is, as a person who originally comes from HK, I fould that hilarious. But of course, there are some CBC I met are very very nice, they won't see me as lower class than them and talk to me. However, inevatably, there is a wall between us - between the so called "FOB" and the "Banana". Sometimes I do feel kinda bad that I do feel like I am welcome in this country, I can never be treated same as a white Canadian etc. But well, I guess that's life. Therefore, recently, I have actually thought of going back to HK. BTW, many of my high school friends in here went back to HK once graudated from University, they can't see they have any future here in Canada.

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 Re: I HATE JIA-YANG-GUI-ZI
Author: Paul Yih (---.mia.net)
Date:   09-21-04 12:05

Dear Sailor,

In every one of us --- as we leave our native home, country or whereever we came from -- there will always be adjustments -- as you have presented where you have already noticed the difference of the American born and even Canaedian born Chinese -- and then the rest of the so called white Canadians.

I guess from what I have read in your posting - you are not all that comfortable and yet -- there is that certain "nostalgia" you have toward your HK -- Yes, I have called and used this term many times " Cultural dissonance"-- or you may not feel the beat or the rhythm of a culture - In fact, we are all that way - I am married to an American ( Germanic/Italian) and while she loves her pop corns at night -- I chew on my sun flow seeds :) That may not be the best example -- but I missed my Chinese dishes like "chickne feet" and "stinking tofu" and I do go for those when I am in China -- My children share my food like all -- but sure they have their certain "dislike" of those typical Chinese dishes as "chiken feet" -- .

I guess or I would like to suggest, you do what you have to do to go back to HK and feel more comfortable, but then let me tell you this - after awhile, you may miss Canada also - that is the dilenma and that is part of life-- we are all part of this new "Cross-cultural" products and we do have our preference - in as far as space -- I can never be in HK -- unless I have my 2000 plus square ft home.. or even in the US - I missed my huge home in Brazil which is over 17,000 sq ft...But all and all, life is an adjustment -- and I have also been most tormenting over these past four years of this so called "stupid war" and I voiced my views daily at the Political forum.

I am not sure of your age -- but we ought need to try to take what we like and re-think what do do not lilk e-- your relationships with the White Canadians maybe that -- there are times, there are just too much differences-- I love soccer and I have little lvoe for football -- but I share with my88 year old mother in law in all her screaming and yelling about GreenBay packers :) that is life. You try your best to mix or not to mix --- and try your best to get along ---. I hope I have given some input to your "cross-cultural" living anywhere :)

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