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 J-20 Mighty Dragon has three times the combat radius of the F-22 Raptor
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-19-12 15:55

I view the J-20 Mighty Dragon as a large F-22. It has greater range and a similar payload. Two side-bays for short-range air-to-air missiles and a main weapon bay to carry medium-range air-to-air missiles.

J-20 combat range: 1,243 miles (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20#Specifications).

F-22 combat range: 471 miles (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor#Specifications).

----------

PHYSICS ANALYSIS

How about a physics argument?

China's J-20 is indisputably larger than the F-22. Therefore, it can carry a larger volume of fuel. Hence, China's J-20 indisputably has a larger combat radius than the F-22. The conclusion is the same.

-----

The F-22 Raptor combat radius of 471 miles was determined from flight test data (see http://www.f22-raptor.com/technology/data.html).

The larger Russian T-50/Pak-Fa has been reported to have a combat radius of 1,500 km or 900 miles (see http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aero-india-roadmap-revealed-for-medium-combat-aircraft-353034/).

It is perfectly reasonable to expect the physically larger Chinese J-20 to have a far greater combat radius than the F-22.

----------

THE CUBE ROOT OF 3

In an earlier post, I made the claim that the J-20 Mighty Dragon has a far greater combat radius (e.g. 1,243 miles) than the F-22 (e.g. 471 miles).

Obviously, it is indisputable the J-20 has significantly longer range than the F-22. Your eyes can easily note the larger physical size of the J-20 in a photographic comparison (with the pictures normalized to match the sizes of the pilots' helmets and airplane wheels).

Anyway, we're moving onward to a mathematical analysis. For a J-20 to have three times the range of a F-22, it needs to carry three times the fuel. Volume is determined by three dimensions (e.g. length, width, and height).

To carry three times the fuel of a F-22, the J-20 must have a fuel tank that is three times larger. The cube root of three will indicate how much larger the J-20 fuel tank must be in physical dimensions.

The cube root of 3 = 1.44

Thus, if the J-20 fuel tank is 1.44 times longer, 1.44 times wider, and 1.44 times taller than the F-22 then the J-20 has three times the fuel load of the F-22.

Anyway, I don't have the schematics for the J-20 and F-22. However, it is entirely plausible that the J-20 fuel tank is 1.44 times larger than the F-22 in all three dimensions. Therefore, it is credible the J-20 has three times the combat radius of the F-22. The US Air Force screwed up in building an air superiority fighter with such a short range.

China can easily bomb (with ballistic, cruise, or MLRS missiles) any potential airfields that may serve as a base of operations for the F-22. Without a base to resupply fuel and ammunition, the F-22 is out of action in the Chinese theater of operation.

[Note: I am aware the J-20 will weigh a little more than the F-22 and it will have to carry a little more than three times the fuel load. However, this is offset by more lift from the canards and the calculations are meant to be approximate to illustrate a point.]

Martin Su

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 Re: J-20 Mighty Dragon has three times the combat radius of the F-22 Raptor
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 10:58

Umm...a big difference being the US Navy can bring these aircraft to the dorrstep of any nation on the planet so the cambate range is not as import. sice the "Ferry Range" of the f22 is over 2000 miles you have to add that to the equation. China's fighter was spawned for 100% land baased operations. The f22 was not.

Chow Lee

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 Re: J-20 Mighty Dragon has three times the combat radius of the F-22 Raptor
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 11:01

Martin, what is the super-cruise capability of the Dragon?

Chow Lee

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 Austraila concludes J22 stealth weaker at many angles....
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 11:12

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html#mozTocId303753

Chow Lee

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 F-22 is not a navalized fighter
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 13:54

Lars Katsu:

Once again, you are way out of your depth. The F-22 is not a navalized fighter. It lacks a strengthened airframe to withstand carrier landings or a landing hook. Furthermore, it is too large and heavy to use the short decks of an aircraft carrier.

I could go on, but the point is you have no idea what you're talking about.

Martin Su

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 J-20 will be able to supercruise
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 13:57

A Chinese general has gone on the record in an interview to state the J-20 will be able to supercruise when it is mass produced (around 2018). A former test pilot has also stated the J-20 can supercruise.

The powerful Chinese WS-15 engine prototype is ready. It is currently undergoing reliability testing, which will require a few years.

Martin Su

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 Updated Australia Air Power study of the J-20
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 14:00

Australia Air Power concludes the J-20 meets very low observable (VLO) stealth criteria across nine radar bands in an updated study.

Link: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-040711-1.html

Martin Su

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 Re: F-22 is not a navalized fighter
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 14:28

Ummm...I've got some news for you. You are WRONG! LOL

Do you homework before you psot.

Chow Lee

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 Re: Updated Australia Air Power study of the J-20
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 14:30

However, they do no retract the fact that at any angle less then a direct frontal, rear, or side angle the signature increases dramatically.

Chow Lee

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 Re: F-22 is not a navalized fighter
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 14:36

Let me clarify...

There is a VTOL variant that the Marines use on board Aircraft Carriers and Amphibous ships. So the Raptor does not need a catapult and traditional cable landing airframe.

Look around. You should be able to find data on this.

Chow Lee

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 You can't tell the difference between a F-22 and F-35. You're hopeless.
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 15:37

Look Lars, you have no clue what is going on. A F-22 Raptor is an air superiority fighter. There is no navalized version.

A F-35 Lightning II is a fighter-bomber. It was originally designed as primarily a bomb-truck and then they added some missiles to it. It's clearly not an air superiority fighter, because the F-35 can't supercruise.

You can't tell the difference between a Raptor and Lightning II. You're hopeless.

Martin Su

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 Let me correct you again
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 15:42

You have misstated Australia Air Power's analysis. What they actually said is that the frontal, side-aspect, and underside are VLO stealthy. The problem is the round engine nozzles in the rear.

I do not expect China to install F-22 style flat-nozzle engines until the advanced and more powerful WS-15 engine has been thoroughly tested. This won't happen for a few more years.

Martin Su

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 J-20 Mighty Dragon is a more modern and aerodynamic design than F-22 Raptor
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 18:10

The J-20 and F-22 are both using turbofan engines. The difference in efficiency should not be significant (e.g. it will only be marginal). The higher compression ratio of the F-22 engine will give it a slight edge in efficiency. However, as I have already stated in my "note," the J-20 has canards to provide extra lift that gives it its own fuel-efficiency advantage.

I have already stated the operational load capacity is approximately the same: two side-bay SRAAM and main-bay MRAAM.

Regarding drag, the J-20 is a more aerodynamic plane than the F-22. The F-22 has two large gaps between the engine airducts and the fuselage. Air will flow into the gaps and create drag for the F-22. The J-20 is a later and more modern design. There is no drag-inducing gap. Instead, the J-20 airduct has been seamlessly integrated into the fuselage. Therefore, the superior design and less drag favor the J-20.

Martin Su

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 Re: Let me correct you again
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 18:52

Please re-examine table II and provide an analysis.

Chow Lee

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 Re: You can't tell the difference between a F-22 and F-35. You're hopeless.
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 19:02

O'h so now you are resorting (once again) to insults? Okay! Don't have a cow Martin! I know you are sensitive about your military stuff and aircraft. Yes, you know your stuff on this issue...I admit it. Are yu happy? ;-)

Chow Lee

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 Re: You can't tell the difference between a F-22 and F-35. You're hopeless.
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 19:15

Now that we have cleared that up, please comment on this text from the source you provided. I would like to hear your esteemed perspective if the part about the y20 NOT being a fighter is true?

"Because the aircraft's center of gravity must be within the triangle defined by the landing gear, the J-20 depends on lift from its canards, which limits its maneuverability to the lifting power of its canards. Hence the J-20 is not a fighter, but rather a light supersonic bomber.[75] The J-20 may have lower supercruise speed (yet greater range) and less agility than a Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor or PAK FA, but might also have larger weapons bays and carry more fuel."

This part is also a little concerning. Apparently when the y20 turns on its radar it location is immediately compromisted? How long do you think until china has a radar that can avoid this shorfall?

"Lewis Page has said that it is unlikely that the Chinese will soon have an American style Low Probability of Intercept Radar and so the J-20 would be limited to attacking ground targets like previous generations of American stealth aircraft such as the Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk. In that case the J-20 would carry a radar, but using it would instantly give away its location. However, the J-20 is expected to use a AESA radar, which should have Low Probability of Intercept modes.[68] Given that the F-35 can already track and jam even the F-22's radar, this might not be sufficient.[69]"

Chow Lee

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 Stop reading the anti-China propaganda
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 19:45

There are videos which clearly show the J-20 Mighty Dragon is a very maneuverable plane. I have already previously discussed this topic.

From my October 17, 2011 post:

Why are canards better than horizontal tailplanes for supermaneuverability?

VIDEO showing off J-20 maneuverability: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PkvI39nImhY

This is a fantastic video. The J-20 Mighty Dragon shows off its super-maneuverability and the advantage of a canard-based (instead of F-22 horizontal tailplane-based) stealth fighter design.

Canards and horizontal tailplanes are both horizontal stabilizers that provide stability and control for an airplane. However, a canard enables superior maneuverability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermaneuverability

"The theory behind canards as the sole elevator surface is that no elevator configuration aft of the wings is truly satisfactory for maneuvering purposes; the airflow over the wings creates turbulence, however small, and thus affects elevators placed directly behind the wings."

Martin Su

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 Re: F-22 is not a navalized fighter
Author: charles koon 
Date:   05-20-12 19:48

""the point is you have no idea what you're talking about.""


'Cause he speaks with his lower mouth! lol

关 红 星

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 Re: You can't tell the difference between a F-22 and F-35. You're hopeless.
Author: charles koon 
Date:   05-20-12 19:55

""Author: Chow Lee
Date: 05-20-12 14:28

Ummm...I've got some news for you. You are WRONG! LOL

Do you homework before you psot.""

关 红 星

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 I read Table II and the analysis. It is exactly as I had corrected you.
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 19:57

Your error was to claim there was no problem with a specular return from the rear of the J-20. By omitting the underside, you implied there was a problem in the specular return from the underside.

This is what you wrote:

"However, they do no retract the fact that at any angle less then a direct frontal, rear, or side angle the signature increases dramatically."

Your statement is correct regarding the frontal and side angles. However, your statement is incorrect regarding the rear angle claim.

The Australia Air Power Table II analysis mentioned two problems with the J-20. Firstly, they mentioned the lack of a horizontal tailplane (which is present on the F-22) to shield the canted vertical stabilizer from producing a specular reflection.

What Australia Air Power didn't say was that the vertical stabilizer on the J-20 is much smaller than on the F-22. Check Google images and see for yourself. This means the problem is much smaller than they imply. Also, the airducts are angled in planform alignment with the canted vertical stabilizer. In other words, there would be a specular reflection anyway from the canted airduct (on both the J-20 and F-22) and the marginal additional radar return from the J-20's vertical stabilizer won't make any real difference.

Secondly, Australia Air Power mentioned the round engine nozzles. I have already addressed this issue.

Martin Su

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 Re: Stop reading the anti-China propaganda
Author: charles koon 
Date:   05-20-12 20:05

The ancestry seller is himself the anti-China propagandist!!!

关 红 星

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 Re: You can't tell the difference between a F-22 and F-35. You're hopeless.
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 20:14

Then you disagree with this?:

"the J-20 depends on lift from its canards, which limits its maneuverability to the lifting power of its canards."

Chow Lee

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 Re: F-22 is not a navalized fighter
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 20:16

Charles, why don't you at least make an effort to contribute as opposed to simply bad-mouthing others? Don't be such a sour puss.

Chow Lee

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 Come on Lars, use your brain.
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 20:49

Lars, this isn't that hard. Canards provide additional lift and maneuverability.

Unless placed at extreme angles, canards will provide additional lift. This is common sense. Air flowing over a wing will provide lift. Everybody knows this.

Secondly, when you angle a canard, it can deflect air and provide additional maneuverability. You already know this too. It's the same effect as using a rudder on a boat. A control surface (e.g. canard or rudder) will provide greater maneuverability.

In conclusion, everybody knows a canard provides lift and greater control/maneuverability. It's elementary.

Martin Su

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 I am almost the only person who even addresses your excessive war-wanting posts.
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 20:56

Pal, stop the linsults...more importantly i am SPECIFICALLY addressing the information YOU provided. So can we stick witht he subject? The wiki Canards CAN provide agility...i get that.

Chow Lee

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 Stop believing you are correcting when you are not...
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 21:01

I don't even know why i bother exploring your ability to question things? You have no appreciation of scientific information. You simply twist it to create jibber- jabber...

All I can do is laugh!- The cube root of three is 1.33 therefore since the cruise range of the Y22 is 1200 miles and the Raptor is 400 miles the fuel tank of the Y20 is X3 larger!

What a putz!!! You didn't even consider the fuel consumption of the Y22 would likely be at a higher rate due to its mass! Stop the bar-room physics and math! Come back to earth.

Chow Lee

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 Re: Stop believing you are correcting when you are not...
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 21:06

Yes, I meant 1.44 but your logic is what I question not your ability to solve 5th grade math.

Chow Lee

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 Don't know what you're asking.
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 21:24

I don't know what you're asking.

If you're asking whether the use of a canard as a control surface to maneuver detracts a little bit from its lift then it is true in a very theoretical sense. The ideal lift provided by a canard is maximized when it is locked in a perfectly horizontal position.

However, if you deviate the canard from a perfectly horizontal position, it might lose 5% or so of lift. You have to keep in mind that the canard is still providing a lot of lift. A canard can provide both lift and maneuverability. Hence, you see euro-canard fighters in the Eurofighter Typhoon and French Rafale.

Martin Su

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 Read the "Note:" in the original post at the bottom
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 21:26

Actually, I did address the issue of greater mass in the J-20 Mighty Dragon.

Reproduced "note" from the bottom of the original post.

"[Note: I am aware the J-20 will weigh a little more than the F-22 and it will have to carry a little more than three times the fuel load. However, this is offset by more lift from the canards and the calculations are meant to be approximate to illustrate a point.]"

Martin Su

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 Re: Read the "Note:" in the original post at the bottom
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-20-12 21:43

Okay, point taken. So outright, do you think in head to head combat with pilot skill being identical and all other factors being identical that the j20 as it stands today is the superior aircraft?

Chow Lee

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 F-22 is superior
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-20-12 21:53

The F-22 Raptor is technically superior today, because it has all-aspect stealth flat-nozzled engines. The flat nozzles are excellent stealth features for both radar and infrared wavelengths.

Secondly, the J-20 has a minor specular radar reflection along its side that needs to be straightened out.

Thirdly, assuming the J-20 had flat nozzles and its minor side-aspect specular reflection was corrected, I would still prefer a fighter without canards. This is a preference based on the theory that the less reflecting surfaces that you have, the better-off you are.

However, the J-20 (with flat nozzles) is very close to the F-22 in stealth. When the technological difference is this narrow, it depends on which side can field more fighters and support them with ground-based radar and surface-to-air missiles. China is in a pretty good position as an efficient manufacturer with superb overlapping air defenses.

Also, don't forget the fundamental design problem with the F-22. It has a short 471-mile combat radius. It will be extremely difficult to maintain a functioning airbase to support the F-22, because of Chinese short-range ballistic missiles, intermediate-range ballistic missiles, and cruise missiles.

Martin Su

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 F-22 and F-35 are both lousy planes
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 14:49

F-22:- problems with oxygen..& etc..till now.

F-35 is not super cruise...which should be considered as 4th or 4.5 generation, and not 5G...but American are so thick-skin to admit this facts.

F-35 is too "high-tech"...which is beyond oprational, and payload is sucks! It can't carry much ammos..hence US is deciding to arm it with light nuclear weapons...then again, any nuclear powered nation will retaliate with nuclear bombs if attacked by such weapon.

It's like inventing a very expensive gadget to solve a simple equation..you should look at the ridiculous price-tag. The mantenance is beyond imgination; anyone who own such plane will be bankrupted by the mantenance alone.

Honestly...no one with borderline intelligence would buy such an expensive toys...that can not perform in real combat, it's is beyond praticality...it's utterly stupid...typical American.

BTW, couple of F-22 were shot down by PLA air defense. This is an open secret...denied by both nations.

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 Re: Read the "Note:" in the original post at the bottom
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 15:03

J20 is super air craft...so long as the data is not out...unlike F-22.

Maybe you like the ideas of using a device to assist you during mating.

But honestly speaking, mating does not require much technicality...ask the monkey.

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 Re: F-22 is superior
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-21-12 15:21

I agree with your assessment. At the end of the day it would probably come down to the pilot since both aircraft are so evenly match. The differences you mention are so small.

Chow Lee

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 Re: F-22 is superior
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-21-12 15:24

I think if the Chinese aircraft had a better radar it could be came over for the raptor.

Chow Lee

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 Re: F-22 is expensive piece of junk!
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 15:30

Even match?

Not a chance.

F-22 can't climb, pilot will died of suffocation.

It can't go far, not stealth since it was shot down by PLA air-defense.

The radar range is limited.

The expensive "stealth" material peel off easily after every flight.

It's a expensive piece of junk.

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 Re: F-22 is superior
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 15:35

Radar is like eye.

To a sniper, the first to sight is the winner.

Radar goes hand in hand with air to air weapons.

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 Re: F-22 is superior
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-21-12 16:45

The problem is the Chinese radar gives the location of the Y20 away becasue they took an old radar and put it in a stealth aircraft. The American radar is advanced and far more difficult to detect.

Chow Lee

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 China has AESA radar, but US is ahead.
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-21-12 17:29

China is familiar with AESA radar technology. China operates AESA on the KJ-2000 AWACS, KJ-200 AEW&C (e.g. balance-beam radar), Type 052C Lanzhou-class destroyer, ground-based AESA radars, etc.

Can China match the number of AESA radar elements on the F-22? Sure, it can. However, the software is more tricky. The Chinese AESA radar hardware may be comparable to the F-22 AESA radar, but it's the subtle differences that would give the F-22 an advantage.

Let me illustrate with an analogy. The Chinese Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo is said to be equivalent to an U.S. Mark 48 Mod 4 torpedo. However, the U.S. has upgraded its torpedo technology to Mod 7 (i.e. modification 7).

Unfortunately for China, the United States had an early start in advanced military technology and it will take about 10 to 20 years to really close down the gap. For example, China's Beidou/GPS global network won't be ready until 2020.

Is Chinese military technology close to US technology? Obviously, the answer is "yes." Is U.S. military technology incrementally better? Clearly "yes." China needs more time to match a Seawolf-class or Virginia-class submarine in all benchmarks.

Martin Su

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 Re: F-22 and F-35 are both lousy planes
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-21-12 17:53

Take your meds. The USA woudl not keep this silent. they would be on China quickly.

Did the USA "dispose" of all the pilot's family members so they would not talk, too???

LOL

Chow Lee

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 You are a typical American die-hard denier
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 17:57

The American radar is advanced and far more difficult to detect.

=========
Don't know what you are talking about.

What gives the plane stealth capability, radar or stealth material?

Bottom line is, China shot down F-22, which means F-22 had poor stealth, and poor radar to detect the on-coming missiles that sink the bas-tard.

Didn't B2 shot down Yugoslav army???

Please do not puff in this forum.

Factual tells it all.

Didn't I said American are die-hard denier??...Not forgetting that most American still deny they lost to PLA in both Vietnam invasion, and Korean war.

But factual tells it all...American GIs have yellow belly, and found to have tail tucked between the hind legs...deny all you want..it doesn't alter the factual.

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 Re: You are a typical American die-hard denier
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-21-12 17:59

You are delusional. Take your thorazine!

Chow Lee

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 Re: F-22 and F-35 are both lousy planes
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 18:05

Take your meds. The USA woudl not keep this silent. they would be on China quickly.

Did the USA "dispose" of all the pilot's family members so they would not talk, too???

===

I didn't relise that American are so open about their covert operation....esp when it's a failed one.

You must be one of the paid agents, to spread lies all over the world.

Facts is China shot down USAF so called "stealth plane".

Mann...can't understand why it's still called stealth?

Reply To This Message
 
 You need this.
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 18:10

Bromocriptine..LoL..cause you are Stooooo-pid.

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 Re: China has AESA radar, but US is ahead.
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-21-12 19:07

Unfortunately for China, the United States had an early start in advanced military technology and it will take about 10 to 20 years to really close down the gap. For example, China's Beidou/GPS global network won't be ready until 2020.

============

Lets keep it that way. Let the American continue to believe that China is 10-20 years behind USA, let the US pentagons continue to underestimate China's capabilty.

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 My proposal on shooting down a true fifth-generation stealth fighter
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-21-12 20:46

Bi-static or multi-static radar is problematic in shooting down a F-22, because the most likely conflict is over Taiwan. Taiwan is an island in the ocean and it's difficult to receive the radar bounce from the underbelly of a transient F-22 flying overhead.

My proposal is purely theoretical. I don't believe the actual scenario will happen.

a. Chinese SRBM can neutralize all Taiwanese military bases in about 20 minutes. The war is over.

b. F-22 has too short a combat radius (e.g. 471 miles) to be deployed in the Asian theater. Japanese airbases can also be vaporized by Chinese SRBM, IRBM, and cruise missiles in 20 minutes. This war is over. There are no Japanese air bases available for F-22 operation.

I can't think of a plausible scenario where the F-22 can realistically reach the Chinese coast. Air-refueling tankers are giant targets and they'll be shot out of the sky in record time. Drop tanks imply a one-way kamikaze trip. Also, the F-22 will not have enough fuel to loiter and fight in the airspace above the eastern Chinese coast.

----------

Anyway, let's move on to the more interesting discussion of shooting down a F-22 (or J-20).

1. A F-22 or J-20 is optimized to minimize its reflection of centimeter-resolution X-band AESA radar.

2. However, a F-22 can be detected with meter-resolution Low-Band radar (see http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Low-Band-Radars.html).

The problem with Low-Band radar is that it can only provide a general location (within a few meters or tens of meters) of a fast-moving stealth fighter. How do we narrow down its true position in space?

Let's use triangulation. While the Low-Band radar from a single unit will provide uncertainty in a bubble of space, we will use multiple Low-Band radar units scattered over the entire eastern Chinese coast. We will aggregate the readings from multiple Low-Band radars over a wide area and that should provide the location of an incoming F-22.

http://i.imgur.com/gRK3m.jpg
Using triangulation, we can pinpoint the location of a F-22 with meter-resolution Low-Band radars. Relay the targeting information to a SAM or air-to-air missile and you have a good chance of shooting down a stealth fighter.

Alternatively, we can conceptually build a dual-seeker missile. The missile could fly towards the center-point of its Low-Band radar reflection. Within 20km of its target, it activates its AESA radar and looks for a F-22. Even if the success rate is only 20%, it would only require five missiles to shoot down a F-22. If you like, you can experiment with a Low-Band radar and tv dual-head seeker.

Martin Su

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 Tracking a F-22 with a low-band radar through statistical averaging
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-26-12 18:06

The problem with meter-resolution low-band radar is that it provides a general area where an enemy stealth fighter is located. Previously, I discussed the technique of triangulation from multiple low-band radar sites to narrow down the position of the F-22.

Today, I want to discuss the technique of statistical averaging. Using a single low-band radar, it might be possible to predict the coordinates for the location of a F-22. Though a single low-band radar reflection may be imprecise, the continuous tracking of a F-22 and the plotting of a smooth curve would show the current F-22 location.

http://i.imgur.com/q1ELa.jpg
By tracking the radar reflections from a single low-band radar, it may be possible to precisely identify the location of a F-22 through statistical averaging.

Obviously, the most effective defense is to use a network of low-band radars and combine the techniques of triangulation and statistical averaging to identify the exact location of a F-22. To neutralize an enemy stealth fighter, SAMs or air-to-air missiles can be used.

If all else fails, vector in a squadron of J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighters for an intercept.

Martin Su

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 J-20 Mighty Dragon is critical to building low-band radar defense against F-22
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-26-12 19:53

In theory, we know we can use the physics principle of "resonance" (see citation below) to determine the approximate location of a F-22 stealth fighter. In addition, we know we can use the principles of triangulation and "tracking through statistical averaging over time" to pinpoint the location of a F-22.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Low-Band-Radars.html

"The Rezonans-N radar is a mobile highly automated coherent all-round surveillance phased-array radar employing the resonance wave reflection effect in the metric wavelength band. It is designed to monitor airspace, to acquire, identify and measure with high accuracy co-ordinates and flight characteristics of a wide range of existing and prospective air targets at long ranges and high altitudes, including low-observable cruise and ballistic missiles and hypersonic aircraft, as well as stealthy ones, in severe jamming and clutter environment, as well as to be used within automated/non-automated command and control systems, non-strategic missile defence systems, rapid deployment assets, and in various military/civil-purpose applications."

----------

How do we utilize these physics principles and build an effective low-band radar defense network against a F-22? The development of the J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter becomes critical. Except for the rear aspect (due to the current lack of flat nozzles), a J-20 is a close approximation of a F-22 in frontal, side, and underside aspect stealth.

Chinese engineers need access to a real stealth fighter (e.g. J-20 or F-22) to test and refine their low-band radar defense network. The development of the J-20 allows Chinese engineers the opportunity to evaluate their low-band radar defense network performance and perfect an effective defense against intruding F-22s.

http://i.imgur.com/6zPw7.jpg
65th test flight of China's J-20 stealth fighter. (Sourced from Xinhuanet: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/photo/2012-01/04/c_131342061.htm)

A precondition to building an effective low-band radar defense network is the construction of a stealthy J-20 Mighty Dragon. By pitting a J-20 against their low-band radar defenses, Chinese engineers can perfect a functioning and reliable defense system.

Martin Su

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 PLA low-band radars to detect stealth fighters
Author: Martin Su 
Date:   05-27-12 17:22

CCTV: PLA low-band radars designed especially for tracking a stealth fighter like the F-22 (央视曝光:解放军装备针对F22的各型雷达).

http://i.imgur.com/1BUNI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uoflB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/STFTw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BSTUp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vLZl9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xERwm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0O0M9.jpg

Reference: http://bbs.news.163.com/bbs/mil/212932075.html

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the post.]

Martin Su

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 Re: China has AESA radar, but US is ahead.
Author: Chow Lee 
Date:   05-27-12 19:16

We don't believe China is behind at all. We are well aware that China lacks transparency and is therefore equal to or advanced from our perspective.

Chow Lee

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 Re: China has AESA radar, but US is ahead.
Author: charles koon 
Date:   05-28-12 02:41

""We are well aware that China lacks transparency and is therefore equal to or advanced from our perspective.""


In everyday life, there are bullies who brag to scare their potential victims. likewise, there are potential victims who keep their head down to quietly prepare themselves for the eventual surprise accountable self-defence.

The same applies to countries.

关 红 星

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 Spying and transparency is relative
Author: FM Liew 
Date:   05-28-12 03:10

We are well aware that China lacks transparency and is therefore equal to or advanced from our perspective.

===============

Ask not what China can show USA.

Ask what USA can show China, so that China will never be accused of spying again...

Show everything to the Chinese, show everything to the world, otherwise quit accusing others of not being transparent.

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 Re: China has AESA radar, but US is ahead.
Author: hohoyan888 
Date:   05-28-12 09:29

We are not transparent either. But, I don't worry because we have a vast spying network in the world.

We knew that Iraq didn't have any WMD but we went after her because of oil and used that as an excuse. We knew what we were doing.

Every US president has to do something to leave his marks. If you want to be a legend, you have to bully.

That is why Mitt Romney is your man, not Obmama. Romney is a much better bully. American are born to bully. Mitt Romney is a real American.

Recently, 3 black kids in New York beat up 2 old Chinese old men on the street for no apparent reason. They got caught and told the police that because these 2 old dudes were Chinese, that was why they had to beat them up. Well, this is the real America. Remember Romney knows how to bully much better than Obama. He should be the man.

Let's get back to the real topic - radar. We can always bully the Chinese to force them to show us what we have. Or we can just beat them up because they are Chinese.

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