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High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: coyote
Date: 04-14-12 16:51

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/high-stakes-brinkmanship-on-south-china-sea/article2399305/

Hmm.... this demands leadership from Beijing. Will they be able to provide it? Beijing is the absolute dominant player here, it should not be afraid to sit down with them. Again the lack of leadership here from China is sorely apparent. Sticking to the mantra of talking only one to one isn't working. Be wary of backing a dog (a small country) into a corner.

Of course China is far from the only "greedy" country here. Vietnam wants half of the same sea. Even toothless Philippines wants close to a half. See maps:

http://i41.tinypic.com/14tsxfp.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/South_China_Sea_claims.jpg

It's ok. It is human nature to grab. But no one must insist on being completely stupid. Sit down and settle this, for heaven's sake.

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: FM Liew
Date: 04-15-12 04:03

Many things can be negotiated, but never sovereignty.

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: charles koon
Date: 04-15-12 05:01

""Many things can be negotiated, but never sovereignty.""

Although you are right, but we can all see that USA is trying to provoke China, through its proxies, for an excuse to start a war away from US mainland. In my opinion, China is still not strong enough to meet the challenge. A question of: "knowing me knowing you". The day may soon come when the reaction is different.

关红星

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: FM Liew
Date: 04-15-12 06:01

同志，中國很清楚美地國在後面操控。但您認為菲國敢以中國一比高低嗎？
就將計就計，把美國引進來。抓賊先擒王，打蛇要打七寸。一打不如三打。
也是時候解放軍給全世界的華僑一個交代。

啥都可談，但土地免談。

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-15-12 07:30

Can the Americans afford to arm the Philippines and gain more status with Vietnam and Burma by this conflict ? What will the Americans be gaining from this conflict -- Think -- as always, money .. is part of the game, greed is the incentive - Yes, sovereignty cannot be negotiated .. but let us factoring in the old Pax Americana, hegemony thinking of the gringos also ..they will be around, this is why the alliances of China Pakistan, Russia-Iran and more will have to create the new global balance in the coming years ..as of now.

Paul Yih

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-15-12 07:34

Charles, the world needs to get a real picture of the real enemies -- EU and US are mere the sub-slaves of the real enemies of this world -- the Bankers, usury bankers -- and US is merely the mercenaries who does have arms, nukes and a war economy for the past one hundred years, over taking the British colonialism as they have been funded by the gold and diamond of the Cecil Rhodes and Oppenheimers and the rest of the so called Industries who love wars and conflicts to make more arms and the very first war logistics and planning are with the bankers ..

Let us not to be deceived any more . The currency wars have to come -- trade barter and no more use of those warring nations and their currencies . It takes moral courage to do that .. with audacity .

Paul Yih

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what high stakes? this is childs play

Author: mr. bean
Date: 04-15-12 08:58

what kind of high stakes are you talking about? this is mere childs play. whats the big deal about this so called ''standoff"? its amusing to see the pinoy FREE press trying to blow this up into a propaganda ploy.

the pinoys & the viets have made such a big mistake in thinking they could gain by being a pawn in the anti china game. they are so childish to think the USA would give them such benefit they have made the biggest strategic blunder.

the south china sea were never a high priority for chinas leadership because there are many other way important things to deal with but these stupid stunts by vietnam & philippines have just made it a priority now.

since hanoi & manila want to play games, beijing is now totally up to it. lets just sit back and enjoy the show. for every little move the pinoys & viets make in scs the chinese can do the same but 10 times greater without breaking a sweat. china has the economic, industrial, personel & military resources that vietnam & philippines cant even remotely dream to match.

this little episode you are talking about here is nothing. its just a few chinese fishing boats and two CMS ships taking a little joy ride. they arent even chinese navy vessels! in case you havent noticed the chinese are in the process of building a huge fleet of CIVILIAN law enforcement ships for the CMS and FLEC and they will be enough to play with the likes of vietnam & philippines.

the viets & pinoys wanted to play, china will answer their call. let the games begin.

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-15-12 12:48

Keep an eye on this Cockeye.....he'll be saying things like....'China is big enough so why not let go of the Scarborough Shoal to'em Flips and move on !'

<a href="http://www.asiawind.com/forums/profile.php?f=11&id=12">FM Liew</a> wrote:
>
> Many things can be negotiated, but never sovereignty.

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Re: what high stakes? this is childs play

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-15-12 12:58

We'll sink their economies and let them come begging.
America isn't gonna lift a finger...just watch and see what I say is true or not.
Them Rosarios , Acquinos, Solidads or Chicanos will be changing their names to Wong, Chen, Zhang and Lees....within my life time.....you know....Flips & Flops that's what they really are.

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-15-12 13:55

haha, we know our own Coyote.. Peep. Peep....:) Hevthink my HGS wishes on to Gordon Chang was too cruell . I say not 5 but. 10 generation for Gordon.

Paul Yih

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Re: what high stakes? this is childs play

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-15-12 14:00

yes, Mr. bean, I am in full agreement bwith you here.:)

Paul Yih

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Re: what high stakes? this is childs play

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-15-12 15:00

Hong Kong people will never go tour Philippines again.
Those stone age people need change--big time-- before they'll be accepted back into the Asian community.
Cunning b*stards the whole lot of them.

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-15-12 15:04

Then cockeye on hearing '10 generations HGS',would rolll his eyes and quib....we Chinese have big hearts....why don't we invite Gordon to sit down and see what's bugging him to write all those nasty stories on China for over 30 years!?

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Re: what high stakes? this is childs play

Author: mr. bean
Date: 04-16-12 02:13

you dont even need the chinese navy to deal with the pinoys, the CMS & FLEC are more than enough to deal with them. in south china sea the navy is there but in the background just in case they are needed.

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: charles koon
Date: 04-16-12 04:08

須要考慮"投鼠忌器"的後果. 中国费了那么多心血, 有了成就, 不可以因為菲小卒把幾十年的建設"赴之一炬". 当然如菲的後台欺人太甚, 中国须預先做好世界性公关才不至亏理, 然后才跟它較量, 與其硬到底.

关红星

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: charles koon
Date: 04-16-12 04:47

Of course we should know the real enemy, but the equally pressing is the bullying by the 'slaves'. It should be dealt with when war is imposed on China.

It is pleasing to learn that some countries are moving away from the manipulated fiat currency. It is the start of the currency wars.

关红星

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-16-12 07:22

Charles, fair advise....

Paul Yih

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-16-12 07:29

this the time wher more and more exposure of the real ecomic and financial criminals shill be revealed and exposed by way of Internet....Song hong Bings one book in his four boo series, about therese Jew bankers of the Rothschild have to be now fully translated into English.. The sooner the better..bathe Chinese noe needs more moral courage to have his one book fully translated into all languages...so the world can all be realizing. Who had their countries "sodomized" ..China can be the first one to reveal this first rape by way of opium....then the rest of the world will all be awaken....

Paul Yih

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: yewtai
Date: 04-16-12 08:05

The superelites know all these coming Xpose. But they already defend themselves by turning all wage earners into electronic slaves. All your personal data will be transferred into the Google supercomputer data center, and homeland security will have access to it. Anyone who try to challenge them, will be black listed. They are using Google and facebook to tame your behavior. :)

Notice that a lot of website you sign up for their services, have link to google, facebook or twitter. If you sign up for their services, all your personal information will automatically diverted to this website controlled by fbi and cia. The link is not a convenient tools for users, but a data mining tools for the superelites. :)

BIG BROTHER IS HERE already.

Superelites were saying so what we are exposed, you cant do any damage to us. But we can do a lot of damage to your future career or business relationships. This applies only to those who are employees wanted to be promoted or businessmen trying to expand. :)

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Chow Lee
Date: 04-16-12 08:29

Pal, kissing up again? If you don't think the nine dotted line represents greed imagine if the USA wanted to clain all the ocean between the mainland and Hawaii as "American" territory?

Chow Lee

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Chow Lee
Date: 04-16-12 10:02

It is good to know there is no "big brother" in China and total freedom reigns supreme!

Chow Lee

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-16-12 10:27

It does not matter how these agencies gathering their info -- as a matter of fact for all nations and their intelligence agencies -If they don't do so, they are dumb and dumber - It is about the digestive system of all information that counts :) No need to fear , as always, truth can set you free -- even to be killed is part of the freeing process - living under fear is not living at all -- So, be brave and be truthful wherever you are -- CIA, call them the Central Idiots of America and FBI , Female Body investigator -- I am one of them :) lol Just see that Hum Gar Shovel Gordon Chang and his comments had verified my hypothesis of Central Idiots of America . Let us find out in the next round when US is running out of funds -- or getting a bit poorer .. :)

Paul Yih

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Apparently PLA is protecting CCP interest

Author: FM Liew
Date: 04-17-12 03:52

Judging from many death and illegal killings conducted by some foreign forces for a pretty long period of time, I have a feeling that PLA's only assignment is to protect the Chinese Communist Party, instead of the citizen.

Otherwise, how to explain PLA non-reactive action towards so many murders by foreign forces???!!!

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The Philippines overtures

Author: coyote
Date: 04-17-12 11:36

The Philippines has made repeated overtures for peace and settlement with regard to Scarborough Shaol:

"The Philippines is definitely trying to build bridges with China.

Both President Benigno Aquino and his foreign minister, Albert Del Rosario, have visited Beijing within the past year, signed agreements and organised cultural exchanges.

Even on the South China Sea dispute, one of the most intractable problems between the two nations, some analysts had started to suggest in recent months that the situation was slowly improving.

Last year, the Philippine navy recorded a series of Chinese incursions into its territory. In one incident, Chinese navy ships threatened to ram into a Philippine research vessel. But until the standoff last week, there had been no sightings of unauthorised ships in Philippine territory since the beginning of February.

And as the troops practice their conflict drills this week, Philippine officials will be fervently hoping they will never have the cause to use their skills for real."

Also:

"This is certainly true economically. China's level of trade with the Philippines is not far behind that of the US, and it is predicted to double by 2016 to $60bn (�38bn) a year.

And there are voices in the Philippines, such as activist Renato Reyes, who say that the government is putting far too much emphasis on the US.

Mr Reyes is vehemently opposed to further US military involvement in the Philippines, saying that if his government "thinks our national interests are synonymous with those of the US, it's wrong."

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Re: The Philippines overtures

Author: coyote
Date: 04-17-12 11:39

The above quote taken from here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17699176

The question then is this: Is it not wise to cultivate relations with the Philippines? In taking the Philippines so much for granted (because it is perceived as weak), is China pushing the Philippines towards the US?

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Re: The Philippines overtures

Author: FM Liew
Date: 04-17-12 11:46

is China pushing the Philippines towards the US?
===========

Does it matters?

Would you want a friend who stab your back if you refuse to give in to his demand?

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The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: coyote
Date: 04-17-12 11:47

"The Philippines claims that as early as the Spanish colonization of the Philippines, Filipino fishermen were already using the area (Scarborough Shaol) as a traditional fishing ground and shelter during bad weather.[8] In 1957, The Philippine government conducted an oceanographic survey of the area and together with the US Navy force based in then U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay in Zambales, used the area as an impact range for defense purposes. An 8.3 meter high flag pole flying a Philippine flag was raised in 1965. A small lighthouse was also built and operated the same year.[9] In 1992, the Philippine Navy rehabilitated the lighthouse and reported it to the International Maritime Organization for publication in the List of Lights. As of 2009, the military-maintained lighthouse is non-operational.[10] In 1965, The Philippines for the first time raised a flag on it.

"Several Official Philippines maps published by Spain and United States in 18th and 20th century show Scarborough Shoal as Philippine territory. The 18th-century map "Carta hydrographica y chorographica de las Islas Filipinas" (1734) shows the Scarborough Shoal then was named as Panacot Shoal. The map also shows the shape of the shoal as consistent with the current maps available as today. During the 1900s Mapa General. Islas Filipinas, Observatorio de Manila and US Coast and Geodetic Survey Map includes the Scarborough Shoal named as "Baju De Masinloc".[14]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarborough_Shoal

____

Claiming history is not enough. The Philippines has the added advantage of it being within its EEZ upto 200 nautical miles.

A rising China must show that it can sit down and negotiate reasonably. Economic benefits adjudicated down some sort of sharing split seems a way out...

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: Chow Lee
Date: 04-17-12 12:42

"Claiming history is not enough. The Philippines has the added advantage of it being within its EEZ upto 200 nautical miles.

A rising China must show that it can sit down and negotiate reasonably. Economic benefits adjudicated down some sort of sharing split seems a way out..."

Good to see you realize this.

Chow Lee

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-17-12 14:20

See what I mean folks??
I knew Coyote would come along with something characteristic to his cock-eyed field of vision on things and matters.
The thing that alarms me through observations on some Chinese among us is.....there are indeed lots of Coyotes and Harleys and Johnny Mak(ees) .
(Notice I don't go along with Charlie here and start claiming Chow-Kee as one of us. The guy ain't no any Chinese.)

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: Chow Lee
Date: 04-17-12 16:04

Most second and third generation Chinese in America do not speak a word of Chinese. We are very successful at assimilating. It is actually our goal. Obvioulsy there are exceptions to every rule.

Chow Lee

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: FM Liew
Date: 04-18-12 00:06

夜長夢多。太多顧慮啥都不用做，任人宰割。

現中國的領土海域以被強行占領，還有更好理由與時機來教訓這般野蠻的邦國嗎？

中國也很清楚美帝國是真正主謀，就是這樣中國更要強硬。打蛇要打頭，抓賊先擒王。將計就計把它引進來，關門打狗。

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-18-12 00:22

There is ample evidence of your statement as found in this Johnny Mak who once frequented around here. He was born in old Calcutta!
Maaaannn......was he some Indian Brit.....he was!

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: FM Liew
Date: 04-18-12 00:37

Most second and third generation Chinese in America do not speak a word of Chinese.
=========

It doesn't matter..they're still being discriminated, systematically accused as spy, abused, and extorted by the lowest ranking US government official.

I summon all overseas Chinese freemasons members to do something about it.

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: coyote
Date: 04-18-12 14:53

play fair old man. these people are no longer in this forum to defend themselves. as for what you said about me, you are welcome to your opinion, as always.

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-18-12 14:56

These folks had left their stench "foot print' in here -- if they have the nerves and the moral stamina as we do, they will be back to argue again.. so what, this is never about trashing some one not here -- This is an invitation to see if they can stand on their grounds -- that goes for Goodman and other fake ones like Lars, the Americans who set up fake visas for Chinese students :) There you go -- Coyote, what is your business or beef :) lol

Paul Yih

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: coyote
Date: 04-18-12 14:59

I of course disagree, fm. but nice flow of language there. very esthetically pleasing. do Singaporeans all have that level of command in the Chinese language?

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-18-12 15:02

...silly you!
Why bother to defend the guy. In real person...the bloke is liable to beckon you over when he spot you in a restaurant (a Chinese one, at that) and without letting you to speak or utter a quack, he'd command you to ......'Speak English" around him for the rest of the evening.
At any rate, isn't it fun knowing the chap is loitering around here for sure and yet not able to irritate us with his English!!??
Gawd.....what satisfaction !!

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: coyote
Date: 04-18-12 15:03

beef? no beef. people will always gossip. nothing new there. if you think that's the level we ought to stay at, well that's fine too.

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: coyote
Date: 04-18-12 15:07

truth is, old friend, I am disturbed when you behave that way. so like siu yen. I do like to fantasize that the people I talk to are not completely depraved.lol

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-18-12 15:31

I'd tell you his beef......'Let 'em have it, Diaoyutai; Nansha; Saisha; Sprateleys; Scarborough Shoals....'....if cockeye can has his way on China's sovereignty.

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: tom Dragon
Date: 04-18-12 15:33

Who cares , right?

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: suen.kuen
Date: 04-18-12 15:37

Aquino the II must hate his mother very much to openly invite the G.I.s back to Philippines.
I see the possiblity of Subic Bay base again for the U.S. navy. which his mother kicked out.

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: coyote
Date: 04-18-12 15:39

not true. don't give up or give in. talk and compromise like mature beings

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: coyote
Date: 04-18-12 15:42

tom. not who cares. but stay calm and lets not behave like inflamed monkeys.

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Re: The Philippines has its own version of history

Author: coyote
Date: 04-18-12 15:59

as people we would not do it to our neighbors. but somehow its ok to threaten violence without exhausting all discussions when it comes to nations. strange indeed

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More filipino @!#$ and more HK banks for the global theives

Author: Paul Yih
Date: 04-18-12 16:37

Time to pack up more @!#$ for the gringos and gringos will make more money to sell more weapons :) It is just good old business :) And from both sides, the corrupted officials will be opening more bank accounts for themselves -- and the black market once again will be inundating Asia , and this time, maybe the US will be borrowing more from the Chinese to fight the Chinese :) It is really comical ..

Paul Yih

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Re: More filipino @!#$ and more HK banks for the global theives

Author: Chow Lee
Date: 04-18-12 19:43

Making some sense again?!!

Seriously...well said.

Chow Lee

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Re: High-stakes brinkmanship on South China Sea

Author: FM Liew
Date: 04-19-12 10:04

:o)

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