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 Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: KChew 
Date:   02-02-12 00:18

Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West


by Dr. Thorsten Pattberg

If you are an American or European citizen, chances are you've never heard about shengren, minzhu and wenming. If one day you promote them, you might even be accused of culture treason.

That's because these are Chinese concepts. They are often conveniently translated as "philosophers," "democracy" and "civilization." In fact, they are none of those. They are something else. Something the West lacks in turn. But that is irritating for most Westerners, so in the past, foreign concepts were quickly removed from the books and records and, if possible, from the history of the world, which is a world dominated by the West. As the philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel once remarked, the East plays no part in the formation of the history of thought.

But let us step back a bit. Remember what school told us about the humanities? They are not the sciences! If the humanities were science, the vocabularies of the world's languages would add up, not overlap. Does that surprise you?

I estimate that there are over 35,000 Chinese words or phrases that cannot properly be translated into the English language. Words like yin and yang, kung fu and fengshui. Add to this another 35,000 Sanskrit terminology, mainly from India and Buddhism. Words like Buddha, bodhisattva and guru.

In a recent lecture at Peking University, the renowned linguist Gu Zhengkun explained that wenming describes a high level of ethics and gentleness of a people, while the English word "civilization" derives from a city people's mastery over materials and technology.

The correct Chinese translation of civilization should be chengshijishu-zhuyi. Wenming is better, but untranslatable. It has been around for some thousand years, too, while Europe's notion of "civilization" is a late 18th-century "invention."

Tourists and imperialists do not come to be taught. They call things the way they call things at home. Then they realize that the names are not correct.

In many countries, adopting Chinese terminology is a taboo. Even the most noble-minded thinkers, such as the Nobel laureate Hermann Hesse, warned the Germans that "we must not become Chinese [...], otherwise we'd adhere to a fetish."

Next is "democracy," a concept of Greek origin. The Hellenic "civilization" failed a long time ago, of course. It's gone, while China's wenming is still here, uninterruptedly so, after 5,000 years. "Democracy" originally had little to do with letting the mob vote, lesser even so for the mob to rule the country; on the contrary, it meant that various, powerful interest groups should fight over the resources, each by mobilizing their supporters of influential city dwellers.

While in China we still see a family-value based social order, in the West we find an interest group-based social order. In your family, you do not apply strict laws or make contracts; instead you induce a moral code. When among strangers who fight against other interest groups, you simply cannot trust them like your own family, so you need laws.

Up to the 20th century, the Europeans believed China was not a proper "civilization," because it had no police force, while China accused Europe of being without "wenming" because it lacked filial piety, tolerance, human gentleness and so on.

Finally, the shengren is the ideal personality and highest member in that family-based Chinese value tradition, a sage that has the highest moral standards, called de, who applies the principles of ren, li, yi, zhi and xin (and 10 more), and connects between all the people as if they were, metaphorically speaking, his family.

The modern Chinese word for philosopher, zhexuejia, is nowhere to be found in any of the Chinese classics. In fact, zhexuejia came to China via Japan, where it is pronounced tetsugakusha, after Nishi Amane first coined the word in 1874. Yet, the Western public is constantly told, through our highly subsidized China scholarship, that Confucius is a "philosopher" and that Confucian thought is "philosophy."

As Slovenian philosopher and critical theorist Slavoj Zizek once said: "The true victory (the true 'negation of the negation') occurs when the enemy talks your language." The West would be irrational to adopt Asian concepts. That would be like holding the candle to China. Moreover, the Middle Kingdom is notorious for assimilating all invading cultures in the past. Why queuing?

The "barbarians" always had superior weapons and technology, but, as Gu Hongming in 1920 noted, lacked true human intelligence. How's that? Well, it's a bit like Star Trek wisdom: If prehistoric humanity evolved from the beasts, then the most advanced human societies would be the least physically aggressive ones, no?

In 1697, the German philosopher Gottfried Leibniz famously argued that the Chinese were far more advanced in the humanities than "we are." He never specified, but I think it is all revealed when he urged all Germans that they must not use foreign words, but use their own language instead (German is a compound language, so it's an infinite source), in order to build and enlarge the German-speaking world.

And so they did. And so the Germans rose to the top. As expected, the Germans, the descendants of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation, called Confucius a "Heiliger" (a saint or holy man). Now, that's convenient. But is it correct scholarship?

Since the European languages have their own histories and traditions, they cannot sufficiently render Chinese concepts. The solution, I think, would be to not translate the most important foreign concepts at all, but adopt them.

So that next time in international relations we could discuss how we're going to improve minzhu in Europe, and how to help America's transition into a descent wenming.

Maybe the West just lacks shengren after all.

Thorsten Pattberg is a German scholar at the Institute of World Literature of Peking University and author of "The East-West Dichotomy" (2009) and "Shengren" (2011). His email is: pattberg@pku.edu.cn. Versions of this article appeared in Japan Times on Nov. 17, and in China Daily on Nov. 25. © 2011 Thorsten Pattberg


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=28940

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 Unwarranted inflation
Author: coyote 
Date:   02-03-12 03:43

In a way these worshippers (of the east) are as ignorant as the bashers (of the same East). While it is pleasing to the ear (of the Chinese) it is misleading, much like accolade that isn't fact based and achieves little more than a swell head for the same Chinese. Porn of the mind. Suckle on it to feel good, but it leads ultimately to deflation. "Wen Ming" is not civilization. Isn't civilization Wen Hua? Wen Ming is an enlightened way of conducting oneself, and can be extended to society as a whole. In English it is "civilized behavior". The differences between Chinese and the west that the author cited seem contrived. Minor really, compared to our overwhelming similarities as descendants from the same human tree.

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: Paul Yih 
Date:   02-03-12 16:22

http://doc.baidu.com/view/66a0a151ad02de80d4d840ee.html
wonderful cross cultural comparison from Dr. Gu ..

Sorry this is all in Chinese .. but it sure is worth it to have it translated in bits and pieces ..

Charles Koon, I am indicating this segment of Professor Gu's work ..It is marvelous.

Paul Yih

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: cheok hong chuan 
Date:   02-05-12 16:29

Coyote,

In that case you will never understand why China is strategically pursuing culture "wenhua" to build a strong country "qiang guo".

As a continuing ancient antiquity of a nation, people and culture, we cannot be led down the garden path of Western civilization. We cannot simply see and define philosophy and civilization in a Western language. Democracy, as a political philosophy as understood in the West is not necessarily the type of democracy that the Chinese want, if they wish to have a thing called 'democracy'! Chinese philosophy is grounded on the Three Pillars of Society. What can Western ideals and philosophy based on individual self and ego add to the Three Pillars of Society? Zilch!

The East-West dichotomy cannot be simply resolved by simply adopting all concepts Western.

China will always be a part of this world, as a good neighbour to its neighbours. But China does not want to either equal or not equal. China just wants to be China. It wants to be a good neighbour just like it wants others to be good neighbours. It does not want to conquer or beggar its neighbours and vice-versa.

cheok hong chuan
6/2/12

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: Paul Yih 
Date:   02-06-12 06:05

no country had developed any systemic thinking like China. just re-reading Yi Jing.. how rich and how systemic to see the transference from old shamanic value to the system of numbers, reason and by the rich observation of natural phenomena..... Yes, this no longer being ethnic centric. these cultural rich have been aroun for much greater than all others. the most or the greatest order observed and organized by these ancestors. this is indeed.culture - in those two words, one is being said- to be harmonious. ;)

Paul Yih

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: Paul Yih 
Date:   02-06-12 06:05

no country had developed any systemic thinking like China. just re-reading Yi Jing.. how rich and how systemic to see the transference from old shamanic value to the system of numbers, reason and by the rich observation of natural phenomena..... Yes, this no longer being ethnic centric. these cultural rich have been aroun for much greater than all others. the most or the greatest order observed and organized by these ancestors. this is indeed.culture - in those two words, one is being said- to be harmonious. ;)

Paul Yih

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: coyote 
Date:   02-09-12 00:33

China is special with a special perspective and much to contribute to world dialogues. But lets not make it unnecessarily mysterious and inscrutable. We are not from Mars.

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: coyote 
Date:   02-09-12 00:35

"these cultural rich have been aroun for much greater than all others."

Why does it always have to be a dick measuring contest? Ours is a rich and great culture. Period. No need to clamor for "greater than all others."

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: Paul Yih 
Date:   02-09-12 01:30

More virtuous than most others :) no @!#$ dicks in here -- you need to be more Chinese :) if for dicks, no circumcision ones in here :) Just trying to match your vulgarity or scatology :)

Paul Yih

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: cheok hong chuan 
Date:   02-09-12 13:25

I agree with Coyote. Firstly, you cannot simply compare and contrast antiquities like Greek, Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Chinese culture; and therefore the possibility is even much more reduced when attempting to compare a continuing antiquity of the Chinese culture against modern Western cultures.

In the Taoist ethos of emptiness, things are like water and the wind, that it comes and goes. It is there but you cannot catch it. If you catch it no longer is the Tao. So Tao has no ego or self. It is ephemeral. the ephemeral cannot be caught or comapred or contrasted. If one has no ego, there is no 'dick'! Simple as that. Thinking on the purported endowments of one's dick is having an ego!

cheok hong chuan
10/2/12

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 Economic racism and now Economic Cannibalism to the Americans
Author: Paul Yih 
Date:   02-09-12 14:50

Coyote is one who had flew over from HK to Canada, but most unfortunately, he had took along the entire cage onto his back :) That is why this dick chat -- and my other lesser "dick" chat is with Chow Chow the barking puppy in here who wants to validate his own postings and diminish what I have inserted with the links of other reports :) And Dao or no Dao, to compare the systematic way of the teaching of Confucius, same time frame of the Dao where we all used to blame Confucian values to be too stiff and too stratified, but in my latest awakening -- I have discovered, not Confucius who had let his teaching to become stale over time -- But it is the people who become mentally lazy and complacent --
Who can stop in what Confucius had said :

Learning has no limits
The one who reaches his/her awareness of knowledge, he or she is the master ...

These two lines had said it all -- learning and education is the only dynamic constant values that we seek - While Dao also shows us the two sides of a zero like a round big huge door -- both sides are empty or vacant -- In this Dao thought -- Wu wei retains nothing -- thus I hold nothing for or against anyone --

But to be virtuous and to not to exercise what is to be virtuous -- by us Chinese ignoring the events of the Jew Opium - we become all those "gay ostriches" in Australia :) putting ones arse up in the air and ignore our own past -- I have and will highlight all the past abuse of China by these immoral Jew opium merchants and their accomplices like almost the entire Europe and Japan -- with their shared rape and sodomy of China -- not to bear hate nor revenge -- But to prevent the next round of financial and economic rape they are now doing in the US -- the 99% people are being raped and sodomized by the same economic forces like then "Jew Bankers" of Rothschild and the executors of their in laws, the Sassoon , who knew what opium will do and can do to the people --- and yet, by their own ethnic hate and false sense of superiority - where any non Jew is just like all animals that are preys and who can be abused, raped or sodomized -- but since they do not have any @!#$ orifices , to use their mercenaries, the English, the Germans, the Americans and all non Jews to pull the war trigger is totally justifiable .

On this note, I am merely forewarning the next round of Opium like rape and sodomy , that have been done not directly by these bank gangsters and their own inbred family behind any closets -- but their game -- they play chess and they instruct all those bank with them to play only Chess .

The Opium War and rape and sodomy is a good story or fable for all.

It is virtuous to avoid anyone to be killed or to be harmed by drugs or by bank usury abuse .

How much more can these bankers by raping any nation ? to what extend ?
Coyote, time to remove that bird cage behind your back :)

Paul Yih

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 Re: Language Imperialism, Concepts and Civilization: China versus The West
Author: coyote 
Date:   02-10-12 03:02

"More virtuous than most others"

What do you call people who keep saying that about themselves?

The pharisees.

Yikes.

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