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 Xuan De medal - authentic or not?
Author: SL Lee 
Date:   07-02-06 12:25

The reason I brought the medal to the public is to find out if any other medal of the same kind exists. I have inquired most museums with no avail. I am open to suggestions and scrutiny about the authenticity of the medal.

There are questions about its strange calligraphy, which is a mix of kaishu (regular script) and zhuanshu (seal script). My interpretation is the Ming emperor (or his desingnated craftman of the medal) thought that seal script would be more official and authoritative, but it might not be easily recognized by the foreign nations (in the mind of the emperor or the manufacturer). So, it was done with a modification they thought would be more acceptable.

A fake of something is often modeled after some existing objects. This medal is unique in design and too plain to have any artistic or monetary value. A fake antique is often done to increase the value with sophisticated decor.

The transition of bronze to brass is a major development of China's metallurgy during Xuan De era, contrary to the statement of the 'senior research fellow' from Singapore. There are plenty of citations about Xuan De brass including the records of the 3000 Xuan De censers and the coins made in Xuan De era.

http://www.bronzedynasty.com.cn/production/daming/daming_index.htm
http://www.yihequanyuan.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardID=91&ID=9761&page=9 This article by a researcher of Palace Museum is worth reading.
“黄铜”一词专用于指铜锌合金,则是到了明代,其记载可见于《宣德鼎彝谱》。
The definition of "Huang Tong" in Chinese and the term "brass" could be different. For brass, the zinc content can vary from 5 to 20%.

The medal was analysed by Scan Electron Microscopy and Energy Dispersion Spectroscopy to have zinc at 8% in several spots, but absent in other spots, showing that it is right at the transition period of brass manufacturing when the technology was still immature to produce homogeneous brass.

With today's technology, homogeneous brass would be the norm. With modern technology, it would be harder to make heterogeneous brass than homogeneous brass. That is, it is harder to fake this medal with today's technology.

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SL Lee

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 Re: Xuan De medal - authentic or not?
Author: paulyih (---.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
Date:   07-02-06 19:10

Dear SL, I would like to know the "Jesuit" segment or involvement in the documentation of this find or related to this medal. I hope this is appropriate to ask you on this "thread". Will you be able to comment in here or should we make a new thread .

I will be very much interested in that .

[%sig%]

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 Re: Xuan De medal - authentic or not?
Author: SL Lee 
Date:   07-02-06 20:35

The Jesuit missionary Pere Francois Xavier d'Entrecolles has nothing to do with the medal. He went to Jingdezhen and got the secret of porcelain making to Europe in 1711-22.

http://www.ceramicstoday.com/articles/entrecolles.htm
Even so, the Europeans could not reproduce the technique of porcelain making until the china clay was shipped from America in 1743. Throughout the 18th century, the European pottery remained at the stoneware stage while the American Catawba have been making excellent potteries and knew how to process china clay.

In a book I am writing, I will describe the relations.

--------------

SL Lee

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 Re: Xuan De medal - authentic or not?
Author: paulyih (---.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
Date:   07-02-06 22:37

Thanks, SL, excellent point ----- the track and traces of this potential link between the Catawba Cherokees and their porcelain technique can be a strong clue ---- to this link with the meal in that region --- It is a good link .

Thanks for the info.

[%sig%]

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 Earthenware, stoneware and porcelain
Author: SL Lee 
Date:   07-03-06 13:03

The Catawba people did not make porcelain. They made stoneware only. There is a clear difference between earthenware, stoneware and porcelain in English terms. In Chinese there are only 'tao' and 'ci', both made from china clay but at different temperatures.

My statement is the Catawba knew how to process the china clay from the raw mineral (rocks). This is something the English did not know even though they have the clay source right under their nose at Cornwall.

--------------

SL Lee

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 Re: Xuan De medal - authentic or not?
Author: Indonesifrey 
Date:   10-07-06 16:04

"So, it was done with a modification they thought would be more acceptable."

It does remind me of those fine symbols etched with good faith and sent valiantly to space on the Voyager. People on the street around here can't read/interpret them, but those poor Alpha Centaurian, Andromedian, Ursa Majorian would surely are more savvyyy.

This has puzzled me no end though: why would folks from China when the going get tough, periodically throughout (at least) the past 2 milliennia, chose to migrate to SEA rather than to a (similar? at least its size) continent of America?

Fdback'llbrejec

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 Re: Xuan De medal - authentic or not?
Author: tom Dragon 
Date:   10-09-06 12:14

Just like you suspected, Chinese had migrated not only to America but also to Canada throughout the past 2 milliennia- as evidenced by the new book:
http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/ow/247bfb636a4c5800a19afeb4da09e526.html, you can get it online or any bookstores.
also read http://www.1421.tv/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=125

When you look at West America Chinese described it as Fusang, discovered by Chinese sea travelers in the 500AD, but it's probably more helpful to look at California in 1800s.
In 1850, roughly half of gold miners in California were Chinese.
In 1870, 70% of the farmers in Central valley in California were Chinese.
Chinese built the Pacific railroad (there's State museum in Reno dedicated to Chinese laborers).
It's fair to say there were more Chinese then than now population wise in America.

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 Chinese came after 1850
Author: SL Lee 
Date:   10-09-06 16:20

Chinese came after 1850 were indenture laborers upon the discovery of gold in California.
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SL Lee

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