Author: paulyih (---.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
Date: 06-22-06 15:04
Author: Paul Yih
I have responded to Joe Ching in the World section -- I think this post belongs here as well.
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Date: 06-17-06 11:08
The evidence by SL Lee had given Menzies North American hypothesis more boosting . I was told by SL weeks ago and I am glad now this piece of evidence is in the open as SL had presented that in HK and at the HKU and the HK historical Museum .
I regret that the timing is a bit off on account of the World Cup ---
Nevertheless, the evidence of the Ming time medallion by SL Lee and the connectivity through the Cherookee tribes -- This is where I continue to do my exploration in the Amazons , in Yucatan and in area where I seek sound --- phonetic sound -- where I think hypothetically, the many Chinese , if indeed had entered in the Americas -- some ofthe evidence will be presented into the sounds of the natives -- as those culture formed those symbiosis --- As in the case of the language of Tupi and Guarani, the dominant language in coastal Brazil or in most of South America - and the Mayans in Yucatan .. thus far, in my personal and "less important way" -- there are many, many similar features ---
But of course, I can't wait the day when we can afford Chinese scholars, cultural anthropologists to join us -- where their contribution to find out the time frame of Ming or near Zhenghe, what dialects and sounds of their language were using at that time -- Could it be the Hakka ? the mandarin ? the coastal region where the sailors and deck hands were created ----
In both past and present -- to rally behind China to do the same search (many may have already been existing data or evidence . of the phonetic sound of then ..) and then jointly --- the sound and language of the time of Zhenghe and the various "asiatic" sounds in Brazil, in Central America can be tested, documented into data --- and now with the Cherokees use of utensils, their celestial guides... bits and pieces may be able to substantiate the possible contacts of Chinese then ..
But of course, let all skeptics be skeptics ---- and only evidence that we can gather and studied will give new lights and new ideas of the old world and the new world -- to determine if and when the Chinese were here.
Thus far, SL Lee's ming bronze piece ( I am assuming ) will be a far more concrete evidence than what all other have surfaced thus far.
Let us go on exploring ----:) tracing our ancestors in the Americas is part of my partime focus -- and that had given methe new energy in my South American travel and more exploration ----- and I have contributed here and there to Menzies team --- from the jade amulet from the Amazonian women tribe --- and that one amulet --- by the name of -- MUIRAQUITA....
jade pieces (jade, or jadeite, which we had never found in entire Brazil-- except jadeite from Nicaragua, guatemala, Mexico ---not nephrite) that were found in the Amazon basin near Santarem ---- are now in the museum located in Belem, in northern Brazil ...
But then again, I am not saying these jadeite (jadeite only produced in Burma in the 1670 and introduced to China-- during the second emperor of the Manchu - Qing dyanasty -- before that, China had no found of Jadeite, or so called imperial jade when it is the highest quality often far more valued by the Cantonese, or southern Chinese -- then those in the north ).
In fact, one of the Cixi 's fascination with the color red --- or pink tourmaline from Fallbrooks, CA was one of the first gems from US to China and to her delight, she used that red gem often next to the imperail jade to have that yin-yong color ...(bad pinying).
The link of stons, amulets from the Amazon basis, tothe animals being said of Asiatic origin -- via Menzies or other evidence -- such as the findings of the Amazonian anaconda ( I have seen plenty in my life time in the jungles in Brazil and Venezuela ), the specie of chicken, the many fruits -- even hypothetically,the maize or corn, may have brought on by the Asian sailors ... to the sweet potato or yam, and many more commented by Menzies as well as in now his 1941 group or team. Of course, record had shown that Pedro Alvares Gabral had found Brazil -- and as early then in 1501, there have been also Chinese boats into Brazil ----
But not forget, Francisco Orellana, Spanish were in that region before Gabral --and from my take -- playing more of a devil's advocate --- the species may have come after 1500 --- as in all the navigators of that time, they recruit or taken deckhands from every where, they could have been Chinese, sumatrans, or folks from that region of Southeast Asia -- and for food and supply --- those species could have arrived into the Americas in the 1500 or there after..... So, while we are searching for evidence of Zhenghe 's track --- and trace. With both some "optimism " my optimism is that Menzies had stirred up the pie ---- or the "shiit" to have now the observation of the America's discovery totally reversed to this hypothetical older discovery by the Chinese --- and why not ? If nothing else, at my age, this is the new stories about Alladin, about the fables of the Arabs in 1001 nights of Arabia --- About Marco Polo, about the silk road .. and who is to knowwhere the Chinese may have also been navigating all along - Hell, even by the evidence of the defeat of the Mongols in the Japanese episode of Kamikaze --- who were the sailors that had taken the Mongols into Japan ?
So, history need not to be coming from only one side -- or evidence provided by the West -- or by the Europeans -- History now has to be reviewed by the natives of the Americas, and Chinese can be just one ofthe many untold stories of then ----- and if evidence found in bits and pieces as by the arousal carried on by Gavin Menzies - I tip my hat to his initiative -- and to have created new stories ... and more imagination and more new comments ..
From what I know, a movie deal has been signed or being negotiated --- for Zhenghe ...and it is marvelous when that story can be told again by the westerners -- I personally like to see DeLorentis , the director producers of the Last Emperor -- who had meticulously taken all the detail and authenticity of time, the people, the attire and the same meticulous detail to put forth the evidence of the "grandiose" Chinese navigation history of Ming --- in visual arts, that can be also be great -- Again, retelling the stories of the Chinese navigation ---- be that for real, fable or partly recreated or re-invented. Definitley this will be the new direction of story telling -- Afterall, we all have grown a bit tired of the Western stories that had been told again and again .. If nothing else -- this is refreshing -- no less than the Da Vinci Code, suggesting that Jesus had sex, married, had kids ------ Maybe it is hard for those virginal christians to take on this ideas that indeed, Christ the man had sex -- that is because he was indeed the man ---- and man do have relations with people and tohave a female companion is not out of the question :)
I think this Zhenghe episode, stories and events will continue to arouse the interest of all to know more about China ---
I know you have a different take on the Ming navigation history -- Yes, I share that intensely with you where China had enjoyed her own kingdom and their own rules and soverignty --- the contact with the West may have been more beneficial, instead, it had brought on more disasters -- in the context per your many posting of the "ming" and the forced upon ---- relationship with the Western Barbarians ..
Maybe in the retelling of the Zhenghe story, a mohamadan, with his originaly name more like Mohamad , Ma instead of Zheng --- a name given by teh emperor, his one time palatial playmate --- and the entire story retelling of that time -- will give both chinese and non Chinese the interesting story of then the Ming emperors ---- and their ideas of a "closed" soceity that not necessarily -- to be non-progressive -- Afterall, up until the Mongols and Manchus -- these northerners enjoyed the court system, the tax system and the peaceful and comfortable living of the Han people --- our food, clothing of silk and linen, our even possible sexual pleasure in a "sedantistic " living between two great rivers ------.
But teh events had told us that , the world is forever changing and no one can afford to sit idle anymore ---- the invasion by the Barbarians versus the more tranquil voyages of Zhenghe will again review the kind of "civiliation " of Chinese -- less intrusive, less invasive and much less non barbaric --- as to compare the "Barbarism " fully display by Bush in Iraq --- maybe history will tell us all that in fact --- his mother's name Barbara, comes from the beards of the Nordsman during Roman time -- and these Barbarians had not ceased to become civilizaed -- they were mere tamed temporarily by the so called "Christian" slave ideology -----.
There is more to be explore by way of Zheng He, be that is vision, or his hidden knowledge from his dad, his origin in Yunan, his time with the Ming court, his travels, his engagement of all these foreign entities ---- last but not least --- SL Lee's evidence is one of the first piece of evidence found in North America -- On that, this will give mroe credence to Menzies hypothesis - and for me, what a marvelous ideas to have one of the Chinese American --- Dr. SL Lee to have noticed the importance of this medal ------- one of the most concrete evidence of the presence of Chinese of Ming time.
I hope we all can rally behind this marvel of a great "find" - and let there be more news and more studies as to the "arrival" and its link to our past and the link from our past to the Americas.
I will continue to dig on my little bits and pieces in the Amazons -- and in Mezo-America :) and I will be glad to share those evidences with you as well as with SL and the team of 1421.
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